Game 92 Thread / Giants @ Cubs (2 of 4)

Game Chat Barry Zito vs. Sean Marshall Lineups:
Roberts CF Theriot SS
Vizquel SS Fontenot 2B
Winn RF Lee 1B
Durham 2B Ramirez 3B
Molina C Soriano LF
Aurilia 1B DeRosa RF
Feliz 3B Kendall C Frandsen LF Pagan CF Zito P Marshall P 60% chance of rain for tonight's game, potentially heavy thunderstorms.


from previous thread-

Kendall waived no trade clause to come here.

Has anyone refused trade to come here since McGriff?

Dusty said on ESPN that he consulted with Aaron about going through the “stigma of being a black Cubs manager” and the racism that goes with it because of what he went through chasing Ruth.

Just go away.

"We suppose we shouldn't be surprised Ben Sheets (finger) wasn't able to stay healthy. Yovani Gallardo is a nice insurance policy, though. As for what they need -- this is one of the most balanced teams in the NL -- perhaps just some middle relief."

Balanced? Mediocre starting pitching and an all or nothing homerun hitting offense? No way.

sheets out 4-6 weeks after mri reveals tissue damage

Wes - according to, Kendall's wearing 18

Any bets on how things go with KenDoll catching? I'm only interested in playing this game with people who can pretend that a pitcher's performance is heavily dependent on who's catching.

7.2 innings 2 R, 6 hits.

Our new catcher goes 0-fer.

I've got a bad feeling about tonight's game...

if Bush and Capuano pitch like they should, Brewers should be okay. Gallardo's going to be a stud, we'll see when that starts though.

They could probably make a deal too and the bullpen isn't half bad.

Thank you, Hollinger.

I assumed that would be his preferred # of choice. I wasn't sure if Quade was going to be a jerk about it or not.

Soto got sent down to make room for Kendall as expected.

We are doing nothing with Zito

It seems our first baseman has discovered his power stroke.

trash talk the Giants again dying cub fan. :)

Hey what the hell? I tried to answer the Jesus question in the other thread and it didn't go through.

Finally something up my alley and Rob's hate for me blocks my post. So sad.

Nevermind, there it is. Rob, thanks for un-hating me.

Well, lots of Lou I don't like here.

Wasn't like Marshall was struggling. He was cruising sans the fourth.

Then you bring Zeus in and he nearly coughs up your lead and throws over 20 pitches in the 7th.

Then you let him hit and leave HIM in.

8th inning of his first game and Kendall gets booed by the home crowd when he screws up a pop up behind the plate.

Of course the batter then gets a hit and Kendall gets booed again.

Zeus was actually signed as a position player... of course, there was a reason he switched to pitching, but I thought that was pretty shrewd, especially given that there were two outs. Agree on leaving Marshall in for one more though.

I was one of the people booing Kendall:-)

That wasn't knocking him as a hitter, Ron.

what happened to our mojo?!!

Lou got cocky and thought Ohman would come through in a key situation. Why gamble there?

Two pretty bad innings, one by Marshall, one by Marmol and Ohman. Not sure why Piniella sent Marmol out to begin the eighth or why he stuck with him. Hope we can get some in the ninth. Milwaukee is winning in the eighth.

Oh well. Gotta score more than 2 to win most games.

So, I had this thought when I saw Zito was pitching today, and looked it up.

vs. LHB: .306 OBA
vs. RHB: .233 OBA

I remember when his old team, the A's, faced him, they loaded the lineup w/ lefties, cuz they knew that trend. I like what Lou's done this year, but he clearly did not know those stats looking at today's lineup....

Whenever Ohman throws a strike when he needs to I always get the feeling it's luck. I'd rather the Cubs run Glendon Rusch out there and that's today's Glendon Rusch.

The Kendall trade is going to ruin this team's mojo. He looks as bad as Barrett behind the plate without the stick.

Kendall's first night reminded me of the famous Rick Aguilera debut...

Dusty was on ESPN yesterday talking about the Civil Rights pioneers he met through Aaron while they were in Atlanta. He mentioned Coretta Scott King, Jesse Jackson and Ted Abernathy.

Either he meant Ralph Abernathy or the former Cub submariner had more of a social conscience than I thought.

So is it safe to say. As a group. That we blame Jason Kendall?

Black activists do better in the heat.

I'm trying to remind myself that I agree with Lou more often than not. But leaving Ohman in to face Robrets was just stupid and totally inexcusable. Forget lefty-lefty! Ohman (if he must pitch) should never pitch with the bases loaded in close games. The guy's just too wild. Inexcusable. I'd rather see Wuertz or even Eyre there. Can't win em all but some losses really do sting. Glad there's a day game tomorrow, let's wipe this one away and make that game back up on Milwaukee.

Off Topic: I just saw this this parody of the Vick sitution and I thought it was hillarous and a good way to forget about this game:

HAHAHAHAHAHA. "I threw him a bone. Underthrew him a bone". Oh that's wonderful stuff there.

Remember all the Lou love last night for out thinking Bochey? Well tonight, he gave it right back. I am sick and fucking tired of him pulling pitchers who are pitching very well after only 88 pitches. He should have gone one more. Fucking A! Molina, Aruillia and Feliz. It's not like Hardy, Braun and Fielder (you're gonna be hearing those names for the next 12 years). Then he leaves in Ohman to face a righty? Why? I don't know. Should have brought in Weurtz. And the lefty? Bring in Eyre if you have to. Hell, I'd rather see Weurtz face Roberts.


I still hated him, even after last night. Last night proving that blind squirrels still find nuts every once in a while.


Soriano CANNOT BAT 5th!!!!! I don't know why you guys refuse to see the truth. He needs to bat leadoff. He likes it there, he plays better there. Stop arguing about it, the evidence is right in front of your noses~

Z v Bonds tomorry

Lastly, this was the game I thought we had the worst chance of winning. Our weakest pitcher of the series against the "ace" of their staff (ace in " " for a reason). None the less. GO BIG Z!

I'm thinking I'm done with BCB, is this the WCG crew over here? BCB is starting to get spooky in its 'cool Kidz' can't criticize the Cubs edicts. I might drop in on the chat here tomorrow to check it out in-real time, like I did w/ Chad's blog last year

he giveth and he taketh away...

Marmol had a rough 7th but with no one getting on-base in front of him, Lou stuck with him and didn't want to waste a bullpen arm or bat in case it went extras. Understandbale, no?

Ohman came in and got one of the greatest hitters in baseball out. I think he deserved a shot to get out of the inning. If they bring Wuertz in there to face Rodriguez, Bochy likely counters with Mark Sweeney - pinch-hitter extraordinaire. If I had any problem it was with a 3-2 slurve to a .239 hitter. Challenge the dude.

Kendall sucked though, dropped Soriano's throw (a tough play but makeable) and then didn't see the pop-up. 2 plays that Barrett would get roasted for and has...

no lack of criticizing the Cubs here...

and yeah, a lot of WCG crew is here....

To be here, you have to swear on the holy book of anti-clutch. Also, you must love Fontenot and worship him as a God.

Bonds: "Any time you have a good at-bat against a good left-handed pitcher, that's when you know you're really close."

What about Will Ohman, Barry?

BULLSHIT!!!!!! post #38 must be deleted!!!!!!

We believe in one Godenot, the 2nd base Almighty,.....

I worship Ron Cey, is that good enough?

Rob, I thought that was you. Vaguely remembered that you were the one who ran this joint, and I see a lot of familiar names.

Tomorrow I'm dipping into the chat room with an Old Stool and a pack of Kool's.

The Chad is riled up.....

Let's all start breaking out Bill James citations for awhile and see what happens...

Holy Shit. He could sign-in as 'Nicodemus' and I'd still know it was the Chad by his tone, inflection, and overall vocab.

Ok, here's a Bill James quote:

"the relief ace should be used in close or tie games as early as the 7th inning"

The Chad has got to LOVE that one.

It's been a rough night DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!!!


He put in Marmol because the previous 1/2 inning was are best vs. Zito all not and he probably wanted to get a 1-2-3 inning and get back to the plate and Marmol was our best option to do that. Like Rob said he pulls Ohman for Wuertz in the 2 atbats after Bonds, Bochy probably responds with bringing in Sweeney. It was the percentage play by Lou and it backfired.

Just in case anyone is curious we lost no ground in the Wildcard race (SD, ATL, and ARI all lost).

Chifan, I don't give a crap. Then bring in Eyre. Ohman can't pitch to a righty there. And I'd like to see a lefty break all his bats on Weurtz' slider. If he throws it for a strike, no one can put good wood on it.

Sorry, forgot to change my name back. it was a joke btw.

Really, how serious can we take you if any solution involves bringing in Scott Eyre?

Guillermo Rodriguez is hitting all of 222/318/278 this year

of course Sweeney's hitting 205/310/370

263/378/526 as a PH though and isn't he 2nd all-time in pinch-hits? (dubious distinction as that is)

that being said, after getting Bonds out and with a lefty due up after Guillermo, leaving Ohman in wasn't a terrible move at all.

and Ohman's been pretty solid if you check out his game log.

Gave up a run each in 2 blowout losses over the last month and his last actual bad game was June 12th.

I don't buy it, Rob. It was plain he didn't have even his OK stuff tonight. After he walked Rodriguez he should've been out like Ellen.

I don't like Ohman facing a righty. End of story. When I say end of story, i am not saying that I'm right, I'm saying that to me that is what made my decision.

it's a coin flip decision and it's the kind of crap that people went overboard the last few years with Baker.

Lou sticks with Marmol only because nobody gets on-base in the bottom of the 7th.

Marmol (with an assist to Kendall) puts 2 on and gets one out. Ohman comes in and gets one of the best players in baseball.

2 outs and a scrub named Guillermo Rodriguez followed by a lefty.

You bring Wuertz in and he's facing Sweeney and if he doesn't get him Roberts.

You stick with Ohman (who's pitched better than Wuertz over the last month) and you get Rodriguez and Roberts.

I just don't see where Wuertz vs Sweeney/Roberts is a better option? (although Wuertz does have some nice splits vs lefties but I'm guessing none of you knew that)

As I said, the only thing I didn't like was the pitch selection especially on 3-2. Roberts is hitting .239, give him a fastball and see what he can do.

I just don't see how going to Wuertz gives any real advantage except in hindsight.

not to mention, scoring 2 runs a game is a pretty good recipe for losing.

So... what are we going to do? The Cubs lost a game!!!

The season must be over.

Manny should be showing up shortly.

"Black activists do better in the heat."

...and if there are too many Black activists in one location, they're just clogging up the street.

…and if there are too many Black activists in one location, they’re just clogging up the street.

Ummm... is there a joke in there?

We are witnessing a fugue of Dusty-isms transposed to the discussion of civil rights. In that specific case, the idea that walks clog up the bases.

Ummm… is there a joke in there?

Oh wait... I get this one. I am a little tired this morning.

Clogging the streets = clogging the bases.

I will shut up now...

...clogging up the bases...

Has the commisioner's office rescinded DLEE's suspension? Hasn't it been 3-4 weeks since the incident? The other guy finished his suspension more than a week ago, didn't he? And DLEE has not even started his? I don't recall a suspension being held in abeyance for as long as this one has. Maybe the commissioner's office has forgotten about it???

DLee has slipped through the cracks because the commissioner is too busy shining Reinsdorf's shoes and dusting his office while the great man tells him why Mark Cuban shouldn't own the team on the north side.

The Yahoo fantasy page for Lee says the hearing has been suspended indefinitely.

Batting Soriano 5th against lefthanders is Lou's way of telling Hendry that he needs a righthanded power hitter. ASAP.

On the brightside-Billy Petrick sure looks good.

Can DLee start counting days of his suspension in November? Does anyone ever remember this long of a delay prior to a hearing? I certainly don't.

I'm starting a The Chad fan club. As president and founder I announce that today is Exclamation Point Day in honor of The Chad. Be sure to show your support and use one! Manny is the anti-Chad. Do not use multiple question marks (Arm, this means you) unless you are showing your support of Manny and thereby disrespecting The Chad.

Long live The Chad!!

lol Whipple!!!!

FYI, Lou was quoted in the Daily Herald this morning as saying that he would give Kendall the day off today due to the long trip in from California yesterday.

"The Yahoo fantasy page for Lee says the hearing has been suspended indefinitely."

Bud's holding it off until right before the series with his beloved Brew Crew.

I like the theory of Soriano batting 5th because it lengthens the lineup ???????

I do agree with Chad that Ohman was a milk during hot summer level BAD CHOICE last night!!!!!!!!!
Rumors about the Cubs interest in Zach Greinke...

Indiana JJ -

Your theory is very very interesting...I wouldn't put that past Buuuuuuud.

Greinke? What for?

What do we need a RHP for? There really isn't a place for him in the rotation (unless Marshall gets traded), and the bullpen already has Dempster, Howry, Marmol, Wuertz, and Petrick.

Is Greinke better than any pitcher on the Cubs right now?

I think I would do a Greinke for Marshall/Patterson swap

Lee could just serve it after Friday's game Vs. Webb and he would be suspened for games v. D-backs with Micah Owings and Yasmiero Pettit starting and the Cards.

If we are talking to the Royals, I'd think we'd be more interested in Reggie Sanders to start in OF against LHP than Greinke. Greinke is still only a couple years removed from being one of the top pitching prospects in the game and is still under club control (though I believe he will be arbitration-eligible after this year). I'm not sure why the Royals would give up on Greinke just yet.

Play at the Plate:

Please assuage my feeling that Soriano had the runner beat by at least five feet - those of you who had the benefit of replay.

IF Kendall came up with the ball, was he dead?

From my seats in Dugout Boxes (first and probably last time), it appeared as if it was a "done deal". But there were no replay monitors and I have not seen any replays yet.

I fucking hate Oh-Man! Always will. Walking a .222 hitter and .239 Dave Roberts stunk - especially having the former 0-2.

Fontenot is 4 for his last 35, ouch. The magic might be over.
#4 overall pick Daniel Moskos is now signed... Hopefully this will help negotiations with Josh Vitters (#3 Overall)

Yeah, guys... It doesn't seem to me that Greinke really would fill a need for the team right now. Obviously, if they're giving him away, it would be hard to say no... But I doubt they are giving him away.

Does Greinke have options?

Because he has talent - I wouldn't mind taking him (for a very affordable price) and letting him pitch in AAA for a while.

Greinke, if i recall correctly, got rushed to the bigs and never was able to fully develop. Maybe some time in minors would allow that to happen.

I certainly would think that Greinke would have options left...
He's only 23, and was drafted in 2002...

"Fontenot is 4 for his last 35..."

I think Fonty may have turned back into a pumpkin. Sorry CWTP.

Hope I'm wrong - but he has looked truly overmatched recently, at the plate.

We'll have to see how long Lou lets him hang with the team as he is truly a "hot hand" manager.

The thing with Greinke is this. Right now the rotation has 3 lefties that are basically mirror images of each other. Marshall is probably the weakest link in terms of overall "stuff" and future projectability. From the right side you have Z. Who is an absolute horse with top shelf stuff. And Marquis, who is a sinkerballer, back end of the rotation guy. If the cubs could trade Marshall for Greinke. It adds another hard throwing righty to the rotation to offset a lineup in between Lilly and Hill. In theory it would make both Hill AND Lilly more effective. Because both of their arsenals look much different than that of Greinke. Also. if the cubs do make the playoffs. I feel alot more comfortable with a 95 mph fastball, power curve guy in a short series. Than marching 3x 90 mph with good hook lefties out there in a row. As much stock as Lou seems to put into "Handedness". I imagine he probably feels the same way.

“Fontenot is 4 for his last 35…”

But wait... all minor leagues are supposed to be able to hit consistently in the bigs if they it consistently in AAA, right?

Oh wait...

I feel alot more comfortable with a 95 mph fastball, power curve guy in a short series.

So you would rather have tools guy who has yet to show that he can be an effective major league starter over pitchers who are continually showing that they can be effective major league starters?

So wait, Fontenot was supposed to hit .400 the rest of the year? I must have missed that memo. Rookies slump and then come back, just as Theriot has done.

*have A tools guy

Marshall hasnt really proven continually that he can be a top flight guy. In all reality he is a back of the rotation #4 starter type. If you can trade him and Ronny Cedeno for a potential Ace #1 type. You've got to do it. IMHO. Especially with the fact that Z might be gone at season end.

Zack Greinke

Sean Marshall

Greinke is younger, has more upside, and is pitching on a terrible team in a stronger league. I like Sean Marshall as much as the next guy. But if a GM were looking to sell high on a guy. Marshall is that guy.

aaronb - but Greinke hasn't shown this either, and he has been in the majors for over three years now. Marshall's numbers are better than Greinke's at this point. I am not so sure that would be a slam dunk... Don't get me wrong, I think Greinke is a good prospect. I am just not so sure that we really have a need for him. I would much rather focus on getting better in RF, and SS.

Marshall hasnt really proven continually that he can be a top flight guy.

I never said he could be a top flight guy. I said he has shown that he can be effective.

And Greinke hasn't really done that.

Don't get me wrong - I would interested taking a chance on Greinke, but not necessarily depending on him this year.

If we're going to deal with KC...

I... want... Dejesus. Name your price.

KC has no shortstop anywhere in the organization. I imagine any deal with them. Will include Ronny Cedeno.

Cedeno, Veal, for Alex Gordon, DeJesus

Done deal. =)

KC has no shortstop anywhere in the organization. I imagine any deal with them. Will include Ronny Cedeno.

Or Izzy!!!!

Cedeno for Greinke = SS for the Royals (though Pena's kid has been hitting better than anyone expected) and Greinke can be some nice Zambrano insurance. He even wants to be a regular player.

I… want… Dejesus.

Hmmm... would deJesus and Godenot be on the same team!!

Tony Pena (The *other*, KC Tony Pena) is rubbish in my opinion. If I'm running the Royals I'd rather see Andres Blanco playing SS than butterfingers, but that's just me.

lol... Good call Dave. They could sell Cub-branded wrist bands... WWDD? What would Dejesus do?

In theory, I would like to have a right-handed starter in the rotation, to have 3 RHP, and 2 LHP.

Greinke has shown some promise in the bullpen, but he still is struggling a bit. He started of with 7 starts, 3 of which were quality. He has brought his ERA down from 5.72 on June 7, to 4.54 as of last night. He has not shown, however, that he can be a starter at the major league level.
I'm getting a little weary of guys who have great "stuff" and can't function consistently getting priority over pitchers who get people out, regardless of the radar gun reading. Marshall has 10 starts this year, 7 of which are quality starts, 2 bad starts, and 1 where he gave up 2 runs in 5 1/3 innings.

I'll take guys who get the job done, thank you.

Greinke's got loads of talent and loads of emotional baggage (which is hopefully under control now), but you can't deal for him now for anything other than a bullpen role, maybe the swingman/long relief guy that they can't seem to nail down.

It'd be borderline ridiculous to trade Marshall for him right now.

As far as Soriano batting 5th or 1st, he is a cool .128/.209/.154 lifetime against Zito overall.
I still like seeing him 5th against LHP.

He couldn't hit Zito if he was batting 1st, 9th, or 7th...

Greinke rumor btw apparently comes from The Score, so I don't believe it. :)

MLB Trade rumors says he tops out at 96 or 100, if that's true no wonder Hendry likes him.

Has The Score ever actually had a scoop that they were right on?

Has anyone mentioned yet that DLee dropped his appeal and will start serving his suspension immediately?

No, CWTP... I guess he might as well, rather than having Bud screw him by having the heariing right before a big series against the brew crew...

Has anyone mentioned yet that DLee dropped his appeal and will start serving his suspension immediately?

Link? Source?

It was discussed earlier and the appeal was supposedly "suspended indefinitely."

And I hate that he sees to have found his power right before he sits for five games.

**sees = seems

No Bonds again today. What a tool.

Is that true about DLee dropping his appeal? If so I guess the timing makes some sense since he was due for a day off anyway.

Worse, supposedly Lee hurt himself fouling a pitch off his shin and can't play...thus the reason for dropping the appeal and serving the suspension now.

Here's what I got on Lee:

Also, along with DeJesus and Godenot, we have Angel Pagan. Since the Yankees are the Great Satan, I predict Yankees/Cubs in the Hell Vs Heaven World Series, Cubs win and the End Times occurs.

Hey my laptop is saying that this page is fraudulent. Does anybody else have that problem? It has never said that before.

Worse, supposedly Lee hurt himself fouling a pitch off his shin and can’t play

Not really worse... it says it would have probably been 2-3 games - doesn't really sound like a big deal.

Adam says:

July 18th, 2007 at 11:17 am

Hey my laptop is saying that this page is fraudulent. Does anybody else have that problem? It has never said that before.

Adam, my friend. Your laptop is apparently an astute judge of charcter.

Well, I guess, if it goes along with him being out anyway, then it sure makes sense... We might need Kendall to contribute a little here in the next few days...


Yeah, Adam. I really can't say that I would question your laptop's jundgement. If this is coming as news to you, then perhaps we have misrepresented ourselves in some way... Most of us on this site are morons...

here here!

This hasn't been mentioned anywhere else I can find but FELIX PIE hurt his right ankle again last night. He came up lame and limping after crossing the bag.

Jamming his ankle when base running has been a recurring problem for PIE at least since 2005 when he lost half a season after spraining his right ankle sliding into second base. On March 3 he again injured his ankle making a slide.

game thread up...enjoy the lineup.

Following the "logic" here today, it's really too bad Pie isn't appealing a suspension.

cwtp - what are you talking about?

Not sure what logic you are referring to...

All I said was that Lee's injury didnt look too bad.

And others said, at least he can serve his suspension when he wouldn't be playing anyway.

Makes sense to me.

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  • Check out John Arguello at Cubs Den for great analysis & photos from Cubs AZ Instructs


    Arizona Phil 6 hours 56 min ago view
  • soler + hammel for mike trout is pretty much a sure thing. *nods*

    crunch 12 hours 14 min ago view
  • Not an inspired outing by Rondon. Seemingly got ahead of every hitter but had no swing and miss pitch today, slider had no bite.

    Somebody give Soler some smelling salts - yeesh

    Eric S 12 hours 15 min ago view
  • that runner scores on a single...

    The E-Man 12 hours 26 min ago view
  • So where do you think Soler will be traded to this off season?

    jacos 12 hours 28 min ago view
  • And right on cue he throws to third with no chance to get runner on 2nd so the batter takes 2nd easily. How long has he been playing baseball??

    The E-Man 12 hours 28 min ago view
  • Man you cannot put Soler out there late in games for Playoffs. Yuch...

    The E-Man 12 hours 35 min ago view
  • Such is the life of a fatted calf...

    JoePepitone 12 hours 49 min ago view
  • fowler with a triple in the 4th...he's a HR away from a "natural" cycle

    crunch 13 hours 22 min ago view
  • ...and contreras takes one off the hand and he's in obvious pain. sigh.

    he's staying in the game, though he's wringing his hand out during breaks in the action. aside from that he seems to have no issue giving signs or tossing back to the pitcher.

    ...and he's batting in the cubs half of the following inning. sweet.

    crunch 13 hours 26 min ago view
  • his collapse started on august 21st this it's a slight improvement.

    but wow, what a collapse since then...only 2 out of 7 can be considered good/decent.

    crunch 13 hours 38 min ago view
  • I'm really going to enjoy watching Hammel watch the playoffs.

    Jackstraw 13 hours 56 min ago view
  • The always combustible Jason Hammel

    jacos 14 hours 17 min ago view
  • Hammel :(

    Charlie 14 hours 18 min ago view
  • That was fun.

    Charlie 17 hours 18 min ago view
  • "home field advantage through the playoffs?"

    Except for the away games.

    VirginiaPhil 17 hours 30 min ago view