Game 121 Thread / Cardinals @ Cubs (1 of 4)

Game Chat Braden Looper vs. Rich Hill Lineups:
Eckstein SS Theriot SS
Ludwick LF Jones CF
Pujols 1B Lee 1B
Encarnacion RF Ramirez 3B
Rolen 3B Ward RF
Edmonds CF Murton LF
Molina C Fontenot 2B
Looper P Kendall C
Ryan 2B Hill P
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Comments

New Orleans Saints - Soft focus story thwarted by Bears.
Rick Ankiel -Soft focus story ... Come on Cubs, do your part.Nevermind about the Colts. We need the wins, dammit.

Wouldn't you want the 5-5 guy in your lineup? Isn't having the high PPA guy in the 2 hole advantageous? Wouldn't you want a RF'er that can run after a ball without his Achilles exploding?

Id much rather have Pie out in center and Jones in right instead of Ward. Ward is one of the slowest players ive seen in a long time

Nice to see Hill getting his usual run support. 1 hit through 4.

This shit is painful to watch.

At least Murton hit the ball out of the damned infield. Only 3rd time that's happened today.

Hendry was just on XM Home Plate. I just caught a few seconds of it, but basically he talked about having a balance of high paid guys and young kids, mentioned how Theriot was having a great year, and at least indicated that it would be someone unlikely that he'll sign another big name in the next year.

Check out these "THE RIOT" t-shirts:

http://tinyurl.com/29dgc2

JOCK!

So.... Jock somehow gave DLee the suck... and recieved all his greatness in return.... Now i get it...

Did Lee even have a chance to score on the 2B by Ward? I can't watch at work. Send 'em anyway!

Fontenot batting a paltry .212 / .306 / .259 since the break.

If Fontenot is going to keep wearing #17, he's has to realize he needs to bang a fat chick to get out of a hitting slump.

Hey Tipsy, I think my favorite item on there is "The Riot" thong underwear. lol.

Sorry, referring to that website link you posted earlier.

That was a fast inning... I was watching on Yahoo! Sports, it said Mid 8th, refreshed, then said Top of 9th.

I would just assume Yahoo! was just behind, but I know how the Cub's lineup likes 3-pitch innings.

That was a fast inning, too. Shit.

Cub's win, btw... in Dusty we trusty.

Damn you, Ryan Dempster!

Did Lee even have a chance to score on the 2B by Ward?

No... the double was just into the bullpen. Lee would have been thrown out if he tried to score.

And always remember... Howry, Dempster, and Jock suck.

And always remember... Howry, Dempster, and Jock all suck.

Oops... it told me that the comment didn't go through, because I was posting too quickly.

I guess I suck more than Howry, Dempster, and Jock.

Feel like sparring, stat guy? Since you brought it up...

It's nearing the trade deadline, you have the opportunity to pick up a guy with this line:

.227/.288/.319, but has a decent career line and 25 HR power.

What do you do?

This is the biggest problem with stats. It doesn't tell you what will happen... only what has happened. Obviously, the numbers are Jacque Jones in early July.

August Jacque: .439/.475/.702

The funny & ironic part is the Cub's tried to trade him and couldn't.

Well, Howry did suck, he just got lucky.

The outfielder had Ward's double into the left field bullpen before Lee was at third.

Nice game Jacque. You're off my shit list (until the playoffs).

I didn't even hit 'Post your comment' twice, though I did post simultaneously on another thread.

This is the biggest problem with stats. It doesn’t tell you what will happen… only what has happened.

Yeah I feel like sparring. I get to choose one player to hit three home runs in the Cubs game tomorrow, I am going to go with Pujols. You get to go with Theriot. The bet is $1 million. Are we on? All those home runs that Pujols has hit over the last seven years mean nothing, they're just stats. Theriot will bat leadoff so he will probably get more PA's, so you should probably give me odds.

Go Cubs! Tied for first! Go Milwaukee!

Rynox... not sure what you really want to "spar" about.

Jock Jones has been excellent this month, and very, very good since the all-star break.

Did have he have a terrible first half? No question. Were there other players available that could possible out-produce him? We don't really know. And we really don't know what it would have cost either.

And if you want to argue "stats" - we can do that to. You are right that stats only tell us about what has occurred in the past, but they are also good predictors of the future. Players go through slumps, even extended ones. But they almost always follow the old cliche - "the reversion to the mean."

Jock's career line: .280/.329/.456
Jock's current line: .276/.336/.401

Those are pretty close to each other.

Now THAT was a satisfying win. I took a 3-hour lunch to watch that game, and it was worth it.

I am still worried about Lee. He's pissed about half the strikes called on him and seems unable to make good contact with pitches on the outside corner (which is the only place they pitch him).

Go Cubs! Tied for first! Go Milwaukee!

Go Milwaukee?!?!

Not sure about you... but I am rooting for the Reds today.

I caught one of Lee's at bats when he took two strikes, and Santo said Lee is not seeing the ball well and start taking the ball to right.

Which is what I was saying the pitches that he has been taking have not been pitchers pitches, just pitches that the 2005 Dlee would have crushed.

Not sure why Lee can't turn on an inside pitch, even slightly inside. Brenly was talking about it briefly the other day, talking about Lee needing to get his hips moving early, but he didn't seem to want to say too much. I don't think Brenly is as free with advice to hitters and pitchers as Santo is.

I have some advice for the journalists who consider their job mainly to write up their notes after Piniella's postgame briefing. Go interview Gerald Perry. Ask him what's up with Lee and pulling the ball. Maybe we'll learn something about Lee, and also about Perry.

Based on Jacque's stats and only his stats up until July you would have to conclude that he is in decline. Sometimes players regress/progress to the mean, sometimes they don't. My point is stats tell us very little about what *will* happen. To say they are a good predictor of the future, well, that's only true sometimes.

My point is stats tell us very little about what *will* happen.

But this is simply not true. Baseball stats have been shown over and over and over again to be a very good predictor of future success. It is not a guarantee, but it is a good predictor.

The Real Neal:
Yeah I feel like sparring. I get to choose one player to hit three home runs in the Cubs game tomorrow, I am going to go with Pujols. You get to go with Theriot. The bet is $1 million. Are we on? All those home runs that Pujols has hit over the last seven years mean nothing, they’re just stats. Theriot will bat leadoff so he will probably get more PA’s, so you should probably give me odds.

Ok... I did not say all players will perform equally, that's retarded. I could tell you Pujols will hit more home runs than Theriot just by watching the guys play the game. Try again.

Here's a real one for you, though, you're managing a team at Comerica, you need a first baseman and you have two choices Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez.

Believe it or not, I pick Adrian Gonzalez. He's built more like a baseball player, in my opinion. Who do you pick and why?

Meaningful game with important ramifications and gratifying outcome in mid August- check.

Beating the Cardinals - check

Z re-signed - check.

Friday night. - priceless.

But seriously... not really sure why we are having this discussion.

I just made a smart ass comment about Jock sucking because people still say he sucks. Even today someone was disappointed that he didn't get hurt yesterday.

Jock and A-Ram are in a neck and neck race for the Cubs 2nd half MVP, or at least the 2nd half best hitter.

He’s built more like a baseball player, in my opinion. Who do you pick and why?

I could care less about how someone is "built." I want someone who can play.

You probably wouldn't want Tony Gwynn, Kirby Puckett, Babe Ruth, or others on your team either, would you?

dave:
Babe Ruth...

Touche.

A good hitter gets a hit 30% of the time, a bad hitter gets a hit 25% of the time....a difference of 5%.

Basically, in either scenario, there is a 65-70% chance of not getting a hit.

I believe Stats in baseball are very useful in making predictions over a long period of time. But on any individual given circumstance, stats aren't very useful in my opinion...especially in baseball where great players make an out 60% of the time.

well I called that one...

Wily Mo Pena to the Nats for a PTBNL...

also Craig Monroe was DFA'ed by the Tigers and they called up uber-prospect Cameron Maybin.

The man with the Ryan Harvey-like K rates and .400ish BABIP...
http://firstinning.com/players/Cameron-Maybin...

get Craig Monroe on this team RIGHT NOW!

No joke. As the right handed pinch hitter off the bench. When Sori comes back, Foxy goes back to AAA.

Foxy probably goes back on Sunday when Floyd comes back.

Monroe would likely take Murton's spot if he was brought in.

Today was a double Cub shocker for me.

1st, Jim Hendry TOTALLY gives me an unbelievable start of my weekend with Z's signing (the ONLY desireable FA who is under 30 in the 2008 market).

Next, surrounded by fucking Cardinal fans (where do they get their tickets here?), the Cubs hang on in a great pitcher's duel, in spite of Rich Hill's only mistake. Its still Friday!

So - now what excuse will Z have on Sunday night? I think he's due to step up in this series. IF we can take 3 of 4, it will mean a great deal now.

1st Place Cubs. Even if only for a few more hours, sounds damn nice!

222/264/373 this year for Monroe....

94 K's/20 BB's

been awful all year except May, but at least he's hit lefties
302/317/542

277/321/501 for his career

Cubs probably could have had him by now if they wanted.

fine. With Floyd back you have two situations:

1. Floyd starts most games in right and Murton is our right hander off the bench (very likely)
2. Murton continues to start and both Floyd and Ward are repetitive left handed bats off the bench (not very likely)

SO...

Given that most would agree that scenario 1 is more likely and that most would agree that Murton needs to play every day (or at least and entire game to be successful) then Murton needs to go back down.

The reason being is that late in a game, if we need a righthanded option off the bench to pinch hit, I want a veteran and not Matt Murton.

begin flaming in...

3...
2...
1...

FLAME ON!

Monroe has played 70 games in center in his career? Anyone know about his D?

Maybe instead of Pie & Pagan?

in two weeks there will be nowhere to send Murton...

I'm not against bringing Monroe in, plus we'll certainly carry an extra bat in the playoffs if we're so lucky.

But if the Cubs passed on Wily Mo who I definitely know can handle CF, doesn't seem like a move they're interested in.

and rob since he's played 8 games in center last year and 33 the year before it sounds like he could play center if he had to. In other words, Jack plays center everyday for the most part.

well JJ came up as a CF'er, he only became a RF'er because of Torii.

Nonetheless, I'm intrigued a bit and he was rumored earlier as a Cub target.

We have someone who can throw 100 lying around or a scrappy middle infielder? Those usually get Dombrowski's attention...

Ohman for Monroe actually makes a lot of sense except I wouldn't want to give up that much. Probably just wait out the 10 days.

No where to send him in two weeks? Even better. Then Murton can be the right handed platoon player while monroe is there as my right handed PH off the bench that I have wanted on this team for...well...all year really. (and Lou has too)

did we get the final details on Z's deal?

So far i've heard no-trade clause, and a 6th yr player option for $19.5 million? Any ideas on the breakout or incentives?

found it on cubs.com. 6th year is a vesting option that will turn into a player option if it vests.

Included in the $91.5 million figure is a $5 million signing bonus. In order for the option year to vest, Zambrano has to finish in first or second place in the Cy Young voting in the fourth year of the contract (2011) or finish 1-2-3-4 in the Cy Young voting in the fifth year of the contract. If either situation happens, the option kicks in and Zambrano then has the choice as to whether he wants to accept or reject the sixth year. There also is a stipulation that he has to be healthy after the fifth year.

I wouldn't mind seeing Monroe, but there are reasons that a team in contention gets rid of a seemingly useful guy. If he's still available in 2 weeks when rosters expand that would be a good fit as an extra bat.

#24

Its funny that you used Jock Jones as an example against statheads. If you would open up your mind a bit for about 2 seconds and go read some SABR, or more stat orientated blogs, many people on them were calling for a big second half for Jones. So I fail to see your point.

There are legitimate counter-arguments out there that can be made against the SABR guys, but you failed miserably in your attempt.

Anyway.........Cubbies win!!!!....First place feels good, even if it is a bit crowded at the moment. I'm going to the game tomorrow with 2 cardinals fans; PLEASE win tomorrow. I honestly don't know where Cardinals fan ever got the reputation of "best fans in the world". I personally can't stand talking baseball with the Cardinal fans I know.

I'm pro-Monroe. He's having a career-worst year in both average and power so one can buy low. He can play adequately in both left and right. For the little it would cost at this point it's a good thought.

no stat would predict or show the power outtage jones is having.

his stats arent making him hit like he is.

jones with 3 of his 5 homers in august...that's at least a move in the right direction fwiw...he's been clipping his doubles with more authority lately, too.

I take Prince every time, Rynox and my team crushes your team.

fontenot 23 for 112 (.205) with a sub-.200 ob%.

2 doubles, 1 triple, 0 hr.

love is over.

seriously, though...not useless and no use sending him down just to bring him back up in sept.

be nice if he can find a little something more in that bat.

sub-.300 ob% =p

that's july/august (to date) totals, btw...amazing his june was .397/.422 avg/ob% with 7 doubles, 3 triples, and 3 HR.

1-0 Reds. Phillips RBI 2B.

"be nice if he can find a little something more in that bat."

I was there today and he hit the ball well twice. Once, the LF made a very nice play on a sinking liner.

I have said this before, but everytime I think he is turning into a pumpkin, he goes on a little streak. Go figure...

and Fielder hits into a Doubleplay, end of 1st

interesting that the former top of the Brewer order, Hart/Hardy are now hitting 7/8. I think Dusty sent in the Brewer lineup tonight.

I have said this before, but everytime I think he is turning into a pumpkin
-----
mmmm, pumpkin pie...

mmmm, pumpkin pie…
------------------

Waffle run off ....mmmmmmmmm

I would also be in favor of adding Monroe. He is a solid defender and a power bat. He'd be a better option in Right vs. Righties than Floyd (Monroe's D makes up for whatever the hitting gap is bewteen them) and could play CF vs. LHP have Derosa in RF and Cedeno playing 2b vs the southpaws the rest of the month and when rosters expand have Fox play RF.

2-0 Reds. Griffey RBI 2B.

Griffey Jr double in the RF corner, Hamilton scores...2-0, now bottom 3rd

Make it 2-1. Hardy donger.

Actually if Soriano's back in September you would have in left with Murton facing southpaws then. I know the Pirates allegdly wanted Monroe in the Jack Wilson talks before the deadline so the Tigers could send him there in a Wilson and pit pen guy for Monroe and pitching prospect trade. Monroe passed through waivers and Hendry said this morning on Waddle's show that he claimed about 11 guys so I doubt he wants him.

Hi Wes...will defer to your play by play

Roger that, Dr. cubster.

Keppenger 1B, Hart flub in center, Arroyo scores after a double.

3-1 Reds Top 4.

It looks like Cuban might have been right after all about NBA refs:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2...

I wonder if helps him with buying the Cubs if what he was saying about NBA refs isnt out of right field.

Hatteberg HR. 4-1 Reds Top 6.

Yeah..we'd better hurry to bench Murton, who is hitting .313/.365/.542 in August, with 3 HR, and 7 RBIs...great.Let's get Floyd's .382 slugging in there as quickly as possible...yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whoo-Hoo!!!!!

Griffey just hit a little league home run on a chopper to third. 2 errors on the play.

6-1 Reds.

Wow... talk about death spiral. Milwaukee has only won 4 games so far this month. And they are trying to lose the game tonight, too.

Cub's have only won 6 games so far this month (that includes today's win... *sigh*)

Cards have won 8.

What an elite group... lol

Chad, I would agree with you I don't want Murton coming off the bench to PH, because he sucks in that role. Start or bust.

Hardy donger again.

6-2 Reds. Bot 8.

Gross donger two batters later.

6-3 Reds.

gross donger.... giggle.

wes?

sent sound: thunder

Jared Burton pitched out of a mess made by Arroyo and Bill Bray. Had Braun and Jenkins had the plate as the tying run and they both flew out.

Going to the 9th. Still 6-3.

Tying run at plate for MIL. Anyone with a faster update than gameday?

Wow... Webb - 42 consecutive scoreless innings.

Thanks Wes - shoulda refreshed before posting.

What's funnier than a gross donger? A pooholes donger?

Dunn to the third deck. Maybe the farthest homer I've seen in that ballpark.

8-3.

Dunn donger! 8-3

4 errors on MIL tonight? Total meltdown?

Weathers shuts it down. 8-3 Final.

We're in first place by ourselves. In August.

Can we end the season today?

Webb's streak at 42 innings....

take him 3 more starts to break the record...

First
Fucking
Place

Savor the moment. As Cub fans, this is a rare treat!

i blame barrett.

But, I suppose they deserve it, the way they have been playing lately.

The Cards really haven't been playing very well. They are 8-8 in August. People seem to be really excited that they one 7 of their last 8 (before today), but everyone forgets that right before that they lost 6 of 7.

A TCR first, I agree with Chad

A TCR first, I agree with Chad

guess now it's a TCR 2nd

Wrong thead, but -- Hendry has his plusses and minuses, but he keeps those he wants to keep. Cubs have ponied up serious $$ for Lee, Ramirez, Wood (back in the day) and now Z.

Apologies for using "Wood" and "Z" in the same sentence.

That's what big market teams do. The Cub's are a big market team.

#98

brandon webb hopefully has 9 more scorless innings
in him next week vs. brewers,if i figure right
the cubs should be lucky and not face him.

Look out below, here come the Brewers.

WHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Could be a fun weekend:

Reyes (2-11) v. Marshall (5-6)
Wells (6-13) v. Zambrano (14-9)
Pineiro (3-2) v. Lilly (13-5)

Today's win was very key to a theoretic series win. Of course, I that's what I thought about the last Dbacks series... if I recall, the only game the Cub's won was the game v. Webb. Crazy sport.

433.

that is a great moment. i am envious. i love experienced knowledge like that.

"he said quietly, almost to himself, “He is going to hit a home run here, he has him measured nicely.”

And he then loosened his white belt holding up his cut off jean shorts and Spezioed himself in front of every one.

What a fantastic day. :)

I got to say, it was a good day.

http://www.nobodysmiling.com/hiphop/showvideo...

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