Pennant Fever

Game Chat Brewers vs Braves tonight in a crucial game. If you need your fix, game chat is open.
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i'm in

Whoa-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo -
Whoa-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo -
Whoa-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo -

Need to head over to the Braves page and talk smack about how they laughed when we said 'we'll see in the playoffs' after Renteria's cheap shot. Guess they were right to laugh, just about the wrong team.

Ehh, wait until after the Brewers series to talk smack...they are our best friends this weekend.

:-)

Nah, screw them. Screw the Astros and Padres too!

I would almost rather see the Brewers win the division than the Braves in the playoffs. Luckily there's a good shot neither happens.

you'd rather see the Brewers in the playoffs and the Cubs and Braves at home?

Interesting. I find it difficult to dislike the Braves in general, despite some of the garbage in the games in ATL this year. Astros on the other hand, hate.

Pretty much the two-facededness of how the Braves handled the Renteria incident and the Fick incident shows that they are a classless bunch of hyporcites. Fick's play was 'cleaner' and less dangerous, and they got rid of him, but Renteria could literally have killed Fontenot (right?) and nothing happened to him.

I said 'almost'.

Well, in the first inning of his first MLB start ever, Jeff Bennett struck out the side.

Go Braves!!

Whoa-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo -
Whoa-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo -
Whoa-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo

A fan base that can't fill the stadium for playoff games doesn't deserves a good team. Besides Bobby Cox's constant yapping at umpires, that's why I can't stand the Braves. Although, of course, I hope tonight is the start of a 4-game winning streak for them!

That would be "deserve." What's gotten into Weeks? The guy can't stop hitting over the last month or so.

3-0 Braves, but could have been more if Renteria didnt give his Moises Alou School of Dumbass baserunning doctorial thesis.

If the Braves offered the Cubs Renteria for Marshall and a couple prospects, would you take the deal? I think the Braves are pretty high on Yunel Escobar --a cheap and healthy alternative to Renteria, perhaps they could use the $ saved on Renteria for more help in the back of the rotation.

CHAD: "Whoa-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo"

Geez, I'm dense. Finally got it.

The Chop.

bout time!

"If the Braves offered the Cubs Renteria for Marshall and a couple prospects,"

yes

And, Pitching in relief in the 8th, Ron Mayhay.

An Ex-Cub can help us out.

How does one reflect tonal pitches using keystrokes?

Whoa-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo-ooo”

Braves win!

Brewers lose!!!

Keep it coming.

huge huge loss for the brewers. they're really up against it now. awesome!

One and a half.
Up two in the and one in this loss!

Renteria for Marshall? Sure

Nothing more though. Marshall's cheap, Renteria is not.

why isn't Billy Wagner closing the Mets game?

the mets broadcasters are freaking out that wagner is not available.....if you can't pitch in a huge game like this something must be quite wrong. he did pitch yesterday but had i think 4 days off before that.

speaking of which, bp had an article about yost's decision to use 7 pitchers last night in a close game and none of them were coco cordero:

"Yost was so married to the idea that the closer pitches in save situations only that he reduced his team’s chances of winning a game it absolutely had to have. If you can’t recognize that “tied in the tenth inning, other team’s best guys up, a half-game out of first place, 12 days left” is about the highest-leverage situation you’re going to come across, and act accordingly, it’s possible that you’re not the best person for your job."

ouch.

omg....wright just threw an easy 2nd out over conine's head at first. what a nightmare couple of weeks for the mets.

tying run at first, one out.

cubs are 58-42 in their last 100, best in the NL
mets are 50-50 btw

Wright makes an amazing stop but throws it away. Conine didn't help at first being a statue though.

I halfway defend Yost's decision yesterday since they were on the road....at home 100% you use Cordero...on the road they are going to have to get the last 3 outs anyway.

I must ask, Chad - was that 'Zombie Nation' that you were singing/blogging? Awesome.

Buck and a half up, folks. This is kind of nice, no?

Mr. Misty May with the tying run at third, one out

quite a game, all tied up. Man on 3rd, two outs.

mets getting booed by their own fans in miami, big time

can't wait to hear all weekend about wagner not being available....

That's it, Mets lose...wow. How crazy would that be if they didn't make the playoffs?

Is Aaron Miles really pitching for STL?

18 to 1, Houstan

Re: #12

if Renteria didnt give his Moises Alou School of Dumbass baserunning doctorial thesis.

_____________

Ha! Excellent! Damn funny.

Not that they had a good shot, but the Brewers are essentially eliminated from the WC. Dodgers are pretty much done too, down to a four team race with the Braves and Rockies next up to be eliminated.

Good to see St Louis is putting up a fight. Tony Larusa 'Come on guys, let's go get shit faced, I am driving!'

Ken Griffey Jr (groin) is out for the year.

Maybe the Cubs should move Rich Hill's last scheduled start up to Thursday at Florida. That also might make him available to throw out of the bullpen on Sunday (9/30) and/or game #163 (tie-breaker) on Monday 10/1 (if necessary)

And then have Zambrano pitch Friday night versus Arroyo instead of Saturday versus Harang, so that if Lilly does have to start on Sunday (9/30), Z can start Game #1 of the NLDS on Wednesday (10/3) on four days rest instead of on three days rest.

well lets hope the Brewers keep the Braves from being eliminated until Monday :)

Yeah, STL has pretty much packed it in. Pujols on the bench. Aaron Miles pitching. Gotta love the integrity of the game.

Cubs have also reclaimed their spot atop the team K race, though the D-Rays (?!) and the Dodgers are still withing striking distance , 20 and 12 back respectively.

Well, The Joe, the Cards did play 2 extra inning games in the past two days and used 11 pitchers in one of them. So Aaron Miles probably pitched out of necessity (and the fact that they were down by 15 runs). Pujols sitting...well, you've likely got a point there. He's been banged up, but he'd be playing if they were still contending.

Neal, I assume you're talking about Cubs pitchers striking guys out?

UPDATED N. L. MAGIC NUMBERS:

N. L. Central:
Cubs
Brewers - 9
Cardinals - 3

N. L. East:
Mets
Phillies - 9
Braves - 6

N. L. West:
Diamondbacks
Padres - 10
Rockies - 5
Dodgers - 3

N. L. Wild Card:
Padres
Mets - 10
Phillies - 8
Rockies - 6
Cubs - 5
Braves - 5
Dodgers - 4
Brewers - 4

Well, Andy, thanks. I'm not really attacking their integrity. It's just clear they're just waiting out the season. They did use a lot of pitchers today. Pujols is nursing another leg injury. I just like attacking them cause I hate 'em.

...though I do doubt their integrity in general.

"When I wasn't playing, I was having a good time too," Sosa said. "I was living la vida Sosa."

If Hendry goes, maybe we can have a year of Sosa platooning with Jackie in right.

In un-related news.

Kendall at $13.44 million is the highest salaried Cub.

Marquis's G/F ratio 1.61 and HR rate are very similar to what he put up in '05 when he went he had a useful 4.13 ERA... if we could just get the '04 form going (maybe with the '05 .786 OPS at the plate). Comeback player of the year candidate?

atlanta braves are helping cubs i do believe
hudson and smoltz are up next,
cheer for braves
who came from milwaukee
to help elimanate brewers
who are from milwaukee.

does any one else think hart has a chance
for possible playoff roster.

If the Cubs win the N. L. Central but have (at best) the 3rd or 4th best-record in the National League, and if the Wild Card team comes out of the N. L. East or N. L.West, the Cubs will play one of the other two division winners in a best three-out-of-five series in the NLDS. And which division winner the Cubs play will be based upon which division the Wild Card team comes from.

For instance, if the season were to end with the teams in the same position they are in now, the Cubs would play the AZ Diamondbacks, and the Padres would play the Mets in the NLDS. That's because the Wild Card team (Padres) cannot play the division winner from it's own division (D'backs) in the NLDS.

But what happens if the Mets (or Phillies) win the N. L. East, the Cubs win the Central, and the Diamondbacks and Padres finish in a TIE for the N. L. West (but the D'backs and Padres have a better record than the second-place team in the East and the second-place team in the Central), or, if the Diamondbacks (or Padres) win the West, the Cubs win the Central, and the Phillies and Mets finish in a TIE for the N. L. East (where the Mets and Phillies have a better record than the second-place team from the Central and the second-place team from the West)?

Answer: There is no tie-breaker playoff if two teams are tied for a division championship where the other team would qualify as the Wild Card. Same goes for determining home field advantage if two division winners win the NLDS and both have the same regular season record.

Instead, the primary tie-breaker used to determine Division Winner and Wild Card, and/or NLCS home field for two division winners with the same regular season record, is the head-to-head record between the two clubs.

In the case of a first-place tie between the Mets and the Phillies, PHI won the season series between the two clubs and would be the division winner, and NYM would be the Wild Card team for purposes of the NLDS and NLCS.

In the case of a first-place tie between the D'backs and Padres, AZ would be the division winner and SD would be the Wild Card for the purposes of the NLDS and NLCS, because AZ won the season series with SD.

This matters because the only way the Cubs would get home field advantage in the NLCS (if they happen to get through the NLDS) is if the N. L. Wild Card team wins the other NLDS series. The Wild Card team NEVER gets home field advantage in the NLDS or NLCS. In fact, that's exactly what happened in 2003, when the Cubs won the N. L. Central and the Marlins were the Wild Card team. Even though the Marlins had a better regular-season record than Cubs, the Cubs got the extra game at home in the NLCS (not that it got the Cubs into the World Series, but it almost did).

Likewise, if the two teams who win the two NLDS series are division winners with the same regular season record, the primary tie-breaker for home-field advantage in the NLCS is head-to-head season records between the two clubs, and the season series advantages go like this:

CUBS > NONE
AZ > CUBS and PHI
NYM > AZ, CUBS, and MIL
SD > NYM, MIL, and CUBS
PHI > CUBS, MIL, and SD
MIL > AZ

rokfish — September 20, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
does any one else think hart has a chance
for possible playoff roster.

========================

ROKFISH: Yes. I had Kevin Hart on the Cubs post-season roster I projected here at TCR earlier this week.

AZ Phil,

If we were to play the Padres in the 1st round do you think Cedeno would make the roster over Monroe or Murton knowing they'll have at most one lefty in Ledzema in their pitching staff. I think at that point having Cedeno around as pinch runner than an extra RHPH makes more sense.

"I must ask, Chad - was that ‘Zombie Nation’ that you were singing/blogging? Awesome."

I appreciate it but it was not Zombie Nation. It's the tomahawk chop. You know, the Braves war chant.

and Zombie Nation, as everyone knows, is the Yankees fight song.

and it's FSU's chant. Suprised the PC Nazis let either team get away with it nowadays.

#54 neal
the PC Nazis

intentionally or otherwise, brilliant oxymoron.

* * * * * * *

if other commenters adopt chad's war chant, will the headline read "chad's chop sticks"?

* * * * * * *

here's hoping the day off breathed a little life into the offense. 12 runs in 3 games vs cincy was good enough to take 2 of 3, but i would like to see the bats dial it up a little more. frankly, the cub pitching deserves a little more (consistent) support.

go cubs !

Wow -- remember when the Cards were going to win the division, and Ankiel was Babe Ruth?

Funny game, this baseball.

DLee -- Now. Right freakin' NOW!

Ankiel cannot handle the heat about his use of HGH. He was a head case as a pitcher and he is a head case again.

Man, what a bad game fro MIL to lose with Smoltz and Hudson coming up. Not that I am complaining!! Magic Number down to 9 and up 1 in the loss column. Woo!!

There is really no excuse now we can't win this division. We have the much easier schedule and the game lead.Let's sweep PITT and if MIL struggles, by the CINC series we will just be tweaking our pitching rotation. NICE!!

DLee — Now. Right freakin’ NOW!

I think we're going to have to give Derrek Lee a pass in terms of being "himself" in 2007. This is a recovery year for him after two traumas last year, one to his wrist and the other at home.

It's unfair to him to be disappointed in him.

Wow, I hadn't realized how horrible Barrett has been since the trade.

.222 average, .233 OBP, 0 Homers, 12 RBI's and a .518 OPS.

After three fairly solid years at the plate, he sure as hell has fallen off quickly.

Does Barrett come back to Chicago to resurrect his career for a 2nd time?

Cedeno as a pinch runner....great?
Murton's second half:
.295/.362/.516..6HR, 13 RBI's.

I'll take that over Cedeno's pinch running.

Magic number = 9. Wow. It's finally a legit number to look at -- not premature anymore, with 10 days left in the season. Would be nice to knock 4 or 5 off of that figure this weekend to have a manageable number going into next week.

Skipping Lilly on Sunday is an important (and realistic) goal, especially if we will play a team that is in a dogfight and won't be able to line up its rotation for the playoffs.

Baseball is fun!

If we go___then they need to go__to force a playoff
9-0...XXX
8-1...11-0
7-2...10-1
6-3...9-2
5-4...8-3
4-5...7-4
3-6...6-5
2-7...5-6
1-8...4-7
0-9...3-8

So mediocrity to the tune of 4-5 means they need to play .636 ball just to tie. I know this is loser thinking, but I can't help myself.

djchi,
MIL only has 10 games left, not 11.

When did Cedeno become Pie? And wasn't he thrown out at second on a walk this season?

I will take the bats.

If Cubs win today and Brewers lose, then I will believe in the magic number.

Still too close.

Here you go...

If we go___then they need to go__to force a playoff
9-0…XXX
8-1…10-0
7-2…9-1
6-3…8-2
5-4…7-3
4-5…6-4
3-6…5-5
2-7…4-6
1-8…3-7
0-9…2-8

whoops. I suck. thanks manny.

Since this thread is titled "Pennant Fever", I like these probabiliites:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/...

Dusty Baylor — September 21, 2007 @ 8:11 am
Cedeno as a pinch runner….great?
Murton’s second half:
.295/.362/.516..6HR, 13 RBI’s.

I’ll take that over Cedeno’s pinch running.
.........................................................................

He is a 5th outfielder with zero tools and isnt worth a used infield rake and a can of Simoiz......

End ' o ' subject

Hey Az Phil!

Have you been around fitch park to see the Cubs instructional club practice/play? Just wondering what you've seen and some of your thoughts if you have seen them?

chifan3887 — September 20, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
AZ Phil,

If we were to play the Padres in the 1st round do you think Cedeno would make the roster over Monroe or Murton knowing they’ll have at most one lefty in Ledzema in their pitching staff. I think at that point having Cedeno around as pinch runner than an extra RHPH makes more sense.

================================

CHIFAN: In my opinion, the only way Ronny Cedeno makes the post-season roster is if he replaces an injured player.

Certainly Cedeno COULD replace Monroe or Murton, but unless Piniella intends to platoon Monroe with Jones in CF and Murton with Floyd in RF, either Monroe OR Murton will platoon with Floyd in RF and the other will be the #1 RHPH. Geovany Soto or Jason Kendall would be another RHPH option.

Although both can be used as a PR, Cedeno COULD replace Felix Pie, but because Piniella likes to use Pie as a PR and then OF defensive replacement, I can't see Cedeno taking Pie's place on the post-season roster.

Because he is a legitimate SS, Cedeno COULD replace Fontenot as a back-up INF, but I would think Uncle Lou will think it more important to have two lefty bats off the bench (Ward and Fontenot) than have a more-legitimate back-up SS available, especially since Theriot is unlikely to be removed for a PH, and since DeRosa can play SS in a pinch.

And don't forget about the new rule, where an injured player can be replaced DURING a post-season series. (Previously, a club had to wait until the conclusion of a series to replace an injured player). The thing is, if an injured player is replaced during a post-season series (NLDS, NLCS, or WS), the replacement player must play the same position as the injured player (BTW, the replacement player having to play the same position as the player being replaced is NOT an issue when making roster changes prior to a new series).

So it is now important for clubs to maintain a ready-reserve cadre of players throughout the post-season who can replace an injured player during a post-season series if necessary. And for this purpose, Ronny Cedeno would be the ready-reserve infielder, Fuld would be the ready-reserve outfielder (Angel Pagan is presently on an injury rehab with the Cubs Arizona Instructional League team, so he actually would be a second OF replacement-option), Henry Blanco would be the ready-reserve catcher (and if the Cubs want an additional catcher to be available, Koyie Hill could be brought up to Chicago and stand-by in case of an injury emergency, at least until he becomes a minor league FA on October 15th), and Steve Trachsel, Sean Marshall, Will Ohman, Carmen Pignatiello, and Sean Gallagher would be the ready-reserve pitchers.

To keep them ready to assume a spot in the starting rotation should a starter (or two) go down to injury during the post-season, it wil be important to keep Trachsel and Marshall "stretched-out" as starters during the post-season, and this can be accomplished by having Trachsel and Marshall throw 60-75 pitch "simulated games" about once a week on off days during the post-season. To make sure at least one is available at all times, the simulated games will need to be staggered (you don't want both to pitch simulated games the same day) so that Trachsel or Marshall are always sufficiently rested to step into to a start at the last minute if needed.

Also, the reason I projected Kevin Hart over Sean Marshall as the 11th pitcher on the Cubs post-season roster is because although both could be used as a long-reliever should a starter get knocked-out early in a game, or pitch multiple innings in an extra inning game, Hart has demonstrated that he can get loose quickly and throw out of the bullpen, while Marshall has not (yet) shown that he can do that (plus Marshall needs to be kept in ready-reserve as a stretched-out starter). And I don't think Piniella wants to go into a post-season series without a long-reliever, which is why I believe Ohman (barring an injury to one of the relievers) will left off the roster in favor of Hart. Otherwise, Ohman only makes the post-season roster if he is chosen over Kerry Wood, and I can't see that happening, at least not in the NLDS.

AZ PHIL: Obviously Pagan is done for the year. Do you think Hendry would have opted to sign Monroe who has not done much to this point, had Pagan not had this disease?

And, in addition, what is Angel's status for next year in terms of MiLB FA?

IMO, I know the guy is not the "sharpest tool in the shed", and takes wierd routes to the ball - but speed, and some pop he's got.

BTW... Speaking of angels...

I read on another blog that Angel Guzman had/is having Tommy John surgery. Is this true? I don't recalling hearing about it, and can't find any confirmation on it.

More on Guzman...

Supposedly Bruce Levine reported it, according to someone at NSBB.

On Aug 31 the Cubs and Brewers looked like this:

Cubs 68-65 ---
Brew 67-67 1.5

Since then both teams have elevated their game--- the Cubs have gone 12-8 and the Brewers 11-7--- and nothing has changed. We still have that 1.5 game lead.

Both clubs are playing .600 ball in September. So, disregarding the quality of schedule, If they play those percentages out the Cubs can be expected to finish 5-4 (or 6-3) and the Brewers 6-4. The Cubs win the division by 1 or 2 games.

While I suppose it could happen, the Cubs will have to fall flat on their face to lose 5 of the next nine against 2 deserved last place teams and the Griffey-less Reds. But it's not far-fetched for Milwaukee to go 6-4 for a Cubs-Brewers division title tie this way if the Cubs falter:

1-2 @Atlanta
3-0 vs St.Louis
2-2 vs San Diego

Forgive me. I don't even like Matt Murton, but it's awful tough for me to see a second half of 295/.362/.516 and come to this conclusion:

"He is a 5th outfielder with zero tools."

He's got a higher post all-star OPS than any other outfielder we carry. Second highest if you classify Ward as an outfielder.

The E-Man — September 21, 2007 @ 10:48 am
AZ PHIL: Obviously Pagan is done for the year. Do you think Hendry would have opted to sign Monroe who has not done much to this point, had Pagan not had this disease?

And, in addition, what is Angel’s status for next year in terms of MiLB FA?

IMO, I know the guy is not the “sharpest tool in the shed”, and takes wierd routes to the ball - but speed, and some pop he’s got.

=========================

E-MAN: Actually, Angel Pagan is healthy and is presently on an injury rehab with the Cubs AZ Instructional League team, and so he will very likely be available in case an OF is injured during a post-season series (where an OF must be replaced by an OF).

I think the main reason the Cubs are seemingly "writing off" Pagan is to keep his DL slot available for a post-season roster player-swap. At present, the Cubs can replace any player on their 15-day or 60-day DL with any player who was in the organization as of 8/31, and that's how Geovany Soto and Kevin Hart can be added to the post-season roster, even though neither was on the Cubs 25-man roster on 8/31.

So right now there are four players on the DL who can be replaced (Guzman, Novoa, Prior, and Pagan), and two of those slots are likely to be allocated to Soto and Hart. And if Cedeno and/or Ohman were to be added (like maybe in the NLCS or WS), the Cubs might eventually need all four slots. That's why the Cubs have not and will not reactivate Pagan from the DL.

As far as Angel Pagan's roster status is concerned, he is on the Cubs 40-man roster, so he can't be a minor league FA post-2007. He will have one minor league option left next season, and if he spends next season with the Cubs, he will have accrued three years of MLB service time by the end of next season, and will be eligible for salary arbitration post-2008.

this can be accomplished by having Trachsel and Marshall throw 60-75 pitch “simulated games” about once a week on off days during the post-season.

Since teams need to keep ready reserves for each position during the playoffs, why not add a few players and just have Marshall pitch 4 or 5 inning exhibition games vs Trachsel with the reserves facing live pitching ?

I'm wrong 80 percent of the time when I try to predict what our 64-year-old manager will do with a veteran player, but I still say Monroe goes and Cedeno stays. A number-two shortstop, for pete's sake, versus a guy who could only possibly be useful for his bat and who has persisted in hitting below .230 in 35 at bats for his new team. Monroe is flunking the test, and it's almost over.

if murton's tools are being called into play...and its not about the bats...

comparing his lack of tools in other areas, esp. defense, to a guy like cliff floyd gets you no points.

its like a macias vs. neifi home run derby.

Why does the age of the manager matter?

and who has persisted in hitting below .230 in 35 at bats for his new team.

That knock on Monroe holds little water when the guy your clamoring for has hit .207 in 29 at bats since his recall.

cubswinthepennant — September 21, 2007 @ 11:02 am

Since teams need to keep ready reserves for each position during the playoffs, why not add a few players and just have Marshall pitch 4 or 5 inning exhibition games vs Trachsel with the reserves facing live pitching ?

===========================

CWtP: You wouldn't want Marshall and Trachsel to throw their 60-75 pitch simulated games on the same day, because one of the two needs to be available at all times to step into the rotation at a moment's notice in case of an injury to one of the Big Four starters.

So (depending on the off days) you would have Marshall maybe throw his simulated games on Mondays, Tuesdays, or Wednesdays, and Trachsel would throw his on Thursdays, Fridays, or Saturdays. That way, one of the two is always available for an emergency start.

"and it’s FSU’s chant. Suprised the PC Nazis let either team get away with it nowadays."

FWIW,the University of Illinois' War Chant is almost the same. But instead of doing the Tomahawk Chop we clap our hands above our heads.

Pirates hired a new GM, Neil Huntington

http://mvn.com/mlb-pirates/2007/09/21/perrott...

Assistant to GM with the Indians

Last year everyone was raving about Murton's .912 OPS 2nd half and basically saying that is the kind of player he is. Now he had a .878 OPS in the 2nd half, but he only had a big 95 AB's. Murton is a 4th OF.

"He assumed the role of assistant general manager in 2002, and had his title tweaked ever-so-slightly to special assistant to the GM in 2005."

Dwight?

How does the 912 second half OPS last year, and the 878 second half OPS this year equate with "Murton is a 4th OF."

The logic in there is missing.

dave:
"The logic in there is missing."

Ask Lou...

Gotta agree with Manny..... Murton is a 4th OF'er at this point.

Would anyone feel comfortable with him as our starting RF'er going into '08? I wouldn't. I sure love him as our 4th OF'er though.

Well... Lou isn't around, and Lou didn't make such a statement.

So maybe you can answer the question about the statement that YOU made.

Jeff Kent. Ass.

Tony Jackson, of The Los Angeles Daily News, reports Los Angeles Dodgers 2B Jeff Kent believes the younger members of the team do not take the same approach to the game that the older players like himself do. "It's just a lot of things," he said. "It's professionalism. It's knowing how to manufacture runs. It's knowing how to keep your emotions in it. It's just a lot of things that go along with playing 162 games and basically getting yourself in there just enough to make the playoffs, and I think experience can help you when you're inexperienced."

Murton's game (or lack thereof) can't be quantified simply with stats. The guy routinely makes bonehead running mistakes, takes bad routes in LF/RF, misses cutoff men, etc.

To top it off, he's not fast, nor does he have a good arm or glove.

Smells like 4th OF to me.

Would anyone feel comfortable with him as our starting RF’er going into ‘08?

Yes.

4th OF'er should be able to play all 3 positions, which Murton can play one, maybe two.

I think the Cubs pick up Monroe's option, try and trade JJ again, move Soriano to RF and give Murton LF. Pie would be your CF with Monroe/Pagan as backups or whomever we get in a JJ trade.

"and I think experience can help you when you’re inexperienced.”"

Thank you Yogi Berra

His whole statement wouldn't be so bad if he didn't really mean:

"The young players on the Dodgers are why we aren't going to the playoffs"

Idiocy from ESPN:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3...

"They have this cute market niche. It's root, root for the Cubbies in this cute, lovable loser sort of way," said Allen Sanderson, a senior lecturer in economics at the University of Chicago and an expert on sports stadiums and franchise sales. "But too much success could spoil that niche."

Err... has this guy actually watched the Cubs at Wrigley the past few years? The boos and jeers would seem to say otherwise.

It’s professionalism.

Hmmm... I guess in Jeff Kent's world, professionalism means breaking your wrist while doing activities that go against your contract.

"I think the Cubs pick up Monroe’s option, try and trade JJ again, move Soriano to RF and give Murton LF. Pie would be your CF with Monroe/Pagan as backups or whomever we get in a JJ trade."

that's my thinking, too. monroe seems to be a reclaimation project by hendry and a 3-slot option to take JJ's slot.

if pie is in the plans...barring injury or hendry deciding JJ should play RF full time...looks like the above could work out as a truth.

unfortunately for the Dodgers it's the old farts (Nomar, Pierre and Gonzo) that are keeping them from the playoffs.

re 98 He's right about what he is talking about. I've said it here before. If we win the World Series, we're not the 'Lovable Losers' any more. For better or worse.

I should say he is a 4th OF on the Cubs, as they only defensive position he should be allowed to play is LF and we are not moving Soriano. Even so, he wouldn't be the ideal LF on any team, IMO.

dave:
"Well… Lou isn’t around, and Lou didn’t make such a statement."

He didn't? Then why did Murton only get 214 AB's this year thus far? His actions speak pretty loudly.

Rob G. — September 21, 2007 @ 11:42 am
4th OF’er should be able to play all 3 positions, which Murton can play one, maybe two.

I think the Cubs pick up Monroe’s option, try and trade JJ again, move Soriano to RF and give Murton LF. Pie would be your CF with Monroe/Pagan as backups or whomever we get in a JJ trade.

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ROB G: Craig Monroe has no option for 2008. He is eligible for salary arbitration, however, and since he's making $4.775M this season, the very least he could get through arbitration is $3.8M (and that's with a maximum 20% cut).

So I smell a 12/12 non-tender.

Maybe the Cubs will non-tender him and then try and re-sign him for (a lot) less money, but more-likely Monroe will not return to the Cubs in 2008.

Wild Thing:
"The boos and jeers would seem to say otherwise."

True, but would winning the WS make the Cubs lose their appeal some? It is an interesting question and both sides of the argument make sense.

mannytrillo — September 21, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
Wild Thing:
“The boos and jeers would seem to say otherwise.”

True, but would winning the WS make the Cubs lose their appeal some? It is an interesting question and both sides of the argument make sense.

====================

MANNY T: I don't know about you, but I'm willing to take that chance.

He didn’t? Then why did Murton only get 214 AB’s this year thus far? His actions speak pretty loudly.

Lou's actions clearly have treated Murton like a 4th Outfielder.

But I haven't seen Lou say anything connecting his playing time with his 912 and 878 2nd half OPS. I think only Manny can tell us what those numbers have to do with him being a 4th OF.

thought he signed some deal, my bad. Either way I think they try and keep him. Even if they non-tender him and try and resign him, the Cubs would offer him his fair market value.

We'll see.

"He’s right about what he is talking about. I’ve said it here before. If we win the World Series, we’re not the ‘Lovable Losers’ any more. For better or worse."

With all due respect, but that is nonsense. I well remember in the early 1960s, when the team would routinely block off the upper deck because there weren't enough fans to justify opening it up. In those days, the White Sox killed the Cubs in attendance.

The team only began to take off in the late 1960s, when Leo Durocher arrived and they started winning. And attendance really bloomed only with the wild card team in the 90s.

Most Cubs fans don't want that "Loveable Losers" crap. We want "Hard-Assed Winners". We'll stick with the team through hard times, like last year, but only if the team looks like it's making real moves towards winning. John McDonough is a marketing guy, he knows which side his bread is buttered on; he loosened the purse strings to try and win ASAP because he knows that while a losing Cubs team may make some money, a winning Cubs team makes *tons* of money - through higher rates in media advertising, the sale of memorabilia, and playoff tickets. He knows what the fans really want, and he's trying to get it for us as fast as possible.

IMHO, Professor Sanderson can take his thesis and stick it where the sun don't shine. To make up for past insult and injury this Cubs fan wants, oh, ten WS rings in a row. I want to get as bored of victory parades as Atlanta fans are of playoff appearances. Then, and only then, can we talk about too much success spoiling the niche.

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