Spring Training Battles: Center Field
The Cubs are a little over two weeks into spring training with about three weeks before Opening Day. It's time to check in on the yearly ritual of spring training battles. What's the fun of spring training without a little competition? The Cubs have a few spots up for grabs and today I'll take a look at the center field spot between Felix Pie and Sam Fuld.
The Cubs had the opportunity this offseason to shore up center field with a more reliable veteran, as a few stars hit the market including Torii Hunter and Andruw Jones
. The Cubs were obviously determined to give their youngsters a shot at the job, as they didn't even bother to call Hunter, which leads to the obvious conclusion that they probably didn't call any of the available center field free agents. We'll all soon find out if that confidence will be rewarded.
Felix Pie has been one of the Cubs top prospects and usually the Cubs top prospect ever since he joined the organization as a wide-eyed 17-year old out of the Dominican Republic. Pie has often been compared to the Cubs last great center field prospect, Corey Patterson, both being left-handed hitters with five-tool talent and questionable strike zone judgement. A tenous comparison, superficial at best, and, to be honest, a lazy comparison. While Corey Patterson struggled with each promotion in the minors and was truly rushed to the majors, Pie has taken each promotion in stride, often putting up better numbers than the previous stop.
Let's compare the two after the jump....
Corey Patterson
(Note: Minor league OBP is compiled with available data)
| Age | Level | AB |
HR |
BB | SO |
BA |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
| 19 | Lo-A | 475 | 20 | 25 | 85 | .320 | .354 | .592 | .946 |
| 20 | AA | 444 | 22 | 45 | 115 | .261 | .329 | .491 | .820 |
| 21 | AAA | 367 | 7 | 29 | 65 | .253 | .308 | .387 | .695 |
| TOTALS | 1286 | 49 | 99 | 265 | .281 | .332 | .498 | .830 |
Felix Pie
| Age | Level | AB |
HR |
BB |
SO |
BA |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
| 17 | Rookie | 218 | 4 | 21 | 47 | .321 | .381 | .569 | .950 |
| 17 | SS A | 8 | 0 | 1 | 1 | .125 | .222 | .250 | .472 |
| 18 | Lo-A | 505 | 4 | 41 | 98 | .285 | .339 | .388 | .727 |
| 19 | Hi-A | 412 | 8 | 38 | 113 | .299 | .358 | .442 | .800 |
| 20 | AA | 240 | 11 | 16 | 53 | .304 | .349 | .554 | .903 |
| 21 | AAA | 559 | 15 | 46 | 126 | .283 | .341 | .451 | .792 |
| 22 | AAA | 229 | 9 | 19 | 40 | .362 | .410 | .563 | .973 |
| TOTALS | 2171 | 51 | 182 | 478 | .300 | .355 | .469 | .824 |
While they do share similar K/BB ratios (2.63 for Pie and 2.68 for Patterson) and career OPS numbers, Pie has almost twice as many minor league at-bats. More importantly, he's almost twice as good. Corey's numbers are inflated by his one good year in lo-A ball, while Pie has continually progressed. And what doesn't show in the numbers is the difference in personalities. While Corey has been marked with the "uncoachable" tag (maybe he's just stubborn or stupid), Pie is known for being eager to please and willing to adjust his game. Had the Cubs remained patient with Corey, they would have had a much better idea of exactly how poor a player he'd end up being.
Sam Fuld's minor league career hasn't been dogged with the same ridiculous comparisons as Pie, but he has struggled with injuries. The 10th round pick out of Stanford has had a tough time making it through a full season with hip, oblique and shoulder injuries, some attributed to his hard-nosed style of play. He's remained consistent with the bat though, putting up a line of 297/377/417 (794 OPS) as a minor leaguer. He certainly helped his cause by being named the AFL MVP with a line of 402/496/626 (1.118 OPS). But before you get too excited about that MVP award, remember he's in a class with Chip Cannon, Eric Duncan, Chris Shelton, Jason Dubois and Ken Harvey.
Defensively, both players are considered a plus and both probably have the arms and range to play any of the three outfield spots. Fuld has a reputation as a player that will run through a wall for you and he nearly did last September for the Cubs, with this highlight reel catch against the ivy. Pie showcased his arm in his very first game, gunning down Russ Branyan to preserve the tie, in a game the Cubs eventually lost. Either one will likely make the Cubs pitchers very happy.
PECOTA has Pie projected at 291/344/480 (824 OPS and 3.8 WARP) which would put his OPS fourth among NL center fielders last year, with at least 350 plate appearances. While that might be a bit kind, it is, at least, encouraging. Sam Fuld comes in at 265/334/369 (703 OPS and 2.5 WARP), which would put him in Juan Pierre territory.
So heading into camp, it looked like Pie was probably the favorite, based on both talent, past performance and future projections. But anybody can get hot in March, so how have they been doing so far? Well, Pie has staked his claim, hitting a robust 321/406/607 in about 32 plate appearances. Fuld has showed that top of the order patience that has been expected of him with 8 walks and a 455 OBP, but has had problems finding holes in the defense, hitting a paltry .143 in his 22 plate appearances. Manager Lou Piniella has already acknowledged that Pie has taken the early lead. But, as mentioned, anyone can get hot over a few weeks and Fuld could still catch fire.
It's my opinion though, that it's time to see what Pie can do in the majors. I understand the desire to supplement him with a right-handed hitting counterpart, as he's historically struggled versus lefties in his career. Beyond that, Piniella should pencil him in regularly at the 7 or 8 spot in the lineup and let his glove make up for the offensive learning curve that any 23-year old in the majors will have to go through.
Coming Up Next: The Starting Rotation








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#1 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
I can't believe someone other than me is awake this late.
#2 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
Paul Sully in the Trib says ditto (without any stats)
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/bas...
#3 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
First of all, nice post.
To quote from "Sunset Boulevard," yes, it's time for Pie's close-up.
#4 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
Just stick him in the 8 spot and let him play a season. What's the point of making him untouchable for years, if they weren't going to give him a full shot to prove himself?
#5 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
Why flames in the logo?
#6 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
All good battles need flames...
#17 Re: Logo
just having some fun...as I explained in another comment, wanted to do something "Wrestlemania" style.
#19 Re: Logo
Heh, I thought it had more of a Daily Show / Colbert Report vibe. I expect to see a graphic of an eagle shedding a single glistening tear the day Murton gets traded.
#27 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
The Cubs are on Fire?
#7 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
The old format at mvn is better. I know there isn't a lot of action right now. Keep up the good work.
#18 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
Hmm... isn't this at least your second comment bashing the new site, without any substance?
And action? How are the "format" and the "action" related to each other?
Still trying to figure out how all these new writers were able to steal the identities of the old mvn writers, and write in the same ways, with the same content, but be some much different.
#20 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
Actually he's right on both points.
There haven't been any 300 reply posts and this embedded comment layout is no good.
#28 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
switch to flat view...
you'll get 300 comments, the next time we leave a post up for longer than a day or the day the Cubs trade for Carl Crawford.
#54 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
aww give the guy a break. if evan wants to comment here on the new site, even he is welcome i think...
#30 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
I liked the old MVN format too, but give the guys at TCR a chance making the switch on their own isn't easy and I am sure what you see here is a work-in-progress and anly going to get better. Plus I am here to pick up the juice on the Cubs first the format comes in a distant second.
#46 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
You guys are nuts! And entirely un-constructive. What exactly do you like better about MVN's style? The 3-inch wide content columns? The ridiculously large article titles? The completely bland and generic black/gray/white color scheme?
I love the new site. It actually feels like, *gasp*, a Cubs blog!
#8 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
Play Pie, with the addition of FBomb and Soto having a pulse they can carry him for awhile if needed.
#9 Felix Pie
Pie should be given the chance to be the starting CF on an everyday basis for at least through the AS Break. If he is struggling then, we might need to go get a CFer. I say might, because if he is playing excellent defense and SS, RF and C steps up and successfully answering many of the questions and concerns about them, then we could live with Pie out there even with him struggling with the bat. But we couldn't live with it if those other positions struggle also.
#10 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
He'll continue to struggle at the plate until he shortens his swing, which he doesn't appear to be doing at all.
By month two, he'll be booed by the drunks and we'll all be trying to find someone for CF so we can send him back to AAA to work on his hitting mechanics.
*sigh*
I guess if fans & the club can tolerate this guy hitting .230/5-10 HR, he'll give them A+ defense all year.
#31 Re: Pie's swing
He'll continue to struggle at the plate until he shortens his swing, which he doesn't appear to be doing at all
You don't know what you're talking about.
#34 Re: Pie's swing
It's early, but he's taking some walks and driving some balls to left-center. Two good signs.
#35 Re: Timmer
Completely unrelated, but are you the same "Timmer" that is wrote an article for Wrigley Season Ticket 2008?
#44 Re: Pie's swing
Well... when you put it that way.
#48 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
His problem isn't a long loopy swing -- that's only noticeable when he gets fooled on a pitch, yes, usually a slider. Most players look bad in some way when fooled. Nobody complains about the long loopy swing when he crushes the ball. His minor league stats speak for themselves and show he deserves a shot. Besides, as another poster said, what's the point of holding back on trading him if we don't use him.
#11 Re: Hunter and other Free Agents
"The Cubs were obviously determined to give their youngsters a shot at the job, as they didn't even bother to call Hunter, which leads to the obvious conclusion that they probably didn't call any of the available center field free agents."
I thought unless we hear directly from Hendry, we can't assume Hendry wasn't involved with every known possible free agent or traded player...:)
#12 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
keep pie in center threw all star break see what hes doing/
trade a middle infielder (cedeno) to giants for r. davis
#13 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
I'm wondering at what offensive level Pie can contribute that will ensure his stay in CF for the season. What would be the bare minimum acceptable here? If he cuts down his s/o ratio and raised his ops to the league average for CF's, would that be considered successful for a full 1st season in the majors? Lou didn't show much confidence in him when he came back at the end of last year, what kind of committment will he demonstrate this season?
#15 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
If it were me his numbers would be less important than his approach. If he struggles, let's see how he adjusts. One of these days he'll be forced to shorten up or fail.
If he doesn't struggle, then we can all look the other way and let him swing however he wants.
#33 Re: What offensive level does Pie need to achieve?
Well, that's easy. Here's what Cubs CF's put up last year when we won the Division title:
.254 .305 .404 .710
Those numbers are clearly achievable by Pie this year if he's allowed to play regularly.
The same goes for Soto at catcher and Theriot at SS. Here are the numbers they need to beat to be better than the Cubs' cumulatives from last year:
C .239 .304 .369 .673
SS .254 .309 .331 .640
Ironically, the player least likely to beat last year's numbers is Fukudome in RF.
RF .293 .375 .419 .794
#53 Re: Spring Training Battles: Center Field
If he defense is Gold Glove caliber, I'll settle for an average year of the 8-time GG, former Oriole Paul Blair:
.250/.302/.382, 11 HR, 14 SB
I'd be thrilled with an average year of 7-time GG Devon White,
.263/.319/.419, 17 HR, 29 SB
Or that of the "Secretary of Defense," 8-time GG Garry Maddox:
.285/.320/.413, 11 HR, 23 SB
And wow, could he really have an average Andy Van Slyke (5-time GG) year?
.274/.349/.443, 13 HR, 19 SB
Sure, I cheated and did not include Barry Bonds, Larry Walker, or Andruw Jones. I don't think Pie will ever reach Jones' level. But if his 2008-2011 seasons are of the lines above in the #7 lineup spot, it would be difficult to call him a bust.
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