Game 77 Thread / Orioles @ Cubs (1 of 3)

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SP *Sean Marshall SP Jeremy Guthrie
  0-0, 4.15, 5 K, 7 BB, 8.2 IP
3-7, 3.51, 68 K, 30 BB, 102.2 IP
2B #Brian Roberts RF *Kosuke Fukudome
RF *Nick Markakis LF *Eric Patterson
3B Melvin Mora 1B Derrek Lee
1B Kevin Millar 3B Aramis Ramirez
C Ramon Hernandez CF *Jim Edmonds
LF *Luke Scott C Geovany Soto
CF Adam Jones RF Mark DeRosa
SS #Alex Cintron SS Ryan Theriot
P Jeremy Guthrie P *Sean Marshall














Bah...the Internets ate my preview, so here's the cliff notes version.

  • Orioles first trip to Wrigley...ever
  • Marshall called up, Reed Johnson to the disabled list.
  • Cubs going for 15th straight home win, Orioles are .400 on the road. Do the math.

Go Cubs!


ROB G: I was going to ask if you got really busy today @ work, as it was 6:15 CST and no lineups.

Lo and behold, I logged in, and there it was!!


Oh - just heard Hoff-power sent down. I think D.WARD was activated as well...



She's nice.

Cards and Brewers win on the road - when is our division going to start sucking, like everybody said?

Chance to be a hero, Matt --- nah. Never mind.

Ronny's AB was possibly the worst I've ever witnessed. Holy effing Christ.

Also, apparently Kosuke's never heard of the Kamikaze warriors of WWII. A HBP scores a run, buddy.

You've gotta be shitting me.

When this team loses, it loses weird. Close and weird.

Agreed, they are much more comfortable winning.

Yeah, that Cedeno AB hurt. The old Ronnie is back...and that is not good.

cedeno swung at pitches that 8 year olds lay off of...i'm almost as embarrassed for him as i am annoyed.

Wow - two of the worst ABs imaginable by Cedeno and Fukudome.

I think they were channeling C-Pat -- bases loaded, pitcher on the ropes, so let's swing at a bunch of pitches way out of the strike zone. In fact, let's swing at the exact same pitch that's way out of the zone twice in a row. Terrible. Cedeno looked clueless again.

Alas, the early season Cedeno mirage was just that - a mirage. Looks like he's the same player he always was.

Soto is hitting in some of the worst luck I have ever seen. It seems like he is constantly either getting robbed of a hit, including the first two ABs tonight, or hitting the ball hard but right at somebody.

Brewers have woken up -- two straight over the Braves in Atlanta, where the Braves are very tough. I fear this may be a 3-way race all season.

The Braves are minus Chipper so those wins dont exactly have as good a RPI ( Ratings Percentage Index, a tool used in NCAA Hoops to determine strength of wins) factor as they would with a healthy Chipper. Also the 3 way race is for 2 spots as the West is awful and the Mets are phoning in the season (Losing 10-0 to RA Dickey is a good sign of it)and the Braves cant stay healthy. The Marlins are likely the one team out not in the Central I would give a chance to of making a run for the WC, but odds are the August heat will fry them. I like our chances of making the playoffs.

I dont hear the Cedeno should be playing SS crowd anymore. He has stunk at the plate over the last 2 months, 13 hits in his last 64 AB's. I mean thanks for April Ronny but pitchers get better as the year goes on, while you still swing at worthless junk you cant lay off on.

But hey Cedeno has POWER!.

Meanwhile Ryan Theriot will slump any time right? That watch is heading into month #3. I guess he could be slumping now he is only hitting .297 with a .342 OBP this month. I am sure the harbingers of doom will swoop in as soon as that happens and proclaim Ronny should start.

Because after all Theriot is nothing more than a singles hitter, but atleast he hits...........what say you Cedeno?

And of course it would all be moot if Eric Patterson didn't call off Theriot while he was standing under the ball waiting for it land into his glove....

Also, although Murton didn't come through there in his pinch-hit spot, he at least looked pretty decent in that at-bat, battled to a full count and put the ball in play. Unlike, say, Ronnie Cedeno.

(I also don't blame Fuku there considering lefties are hitting what .130 against the guy this year? Although I would've appreciated leaning into a pitch...)

Theriot and Edmonds should take a some of the heat on that play, Theriot was in postion to make the catch and should have called it before Epat got there. Also if Edmonds makes a decent throw they likely get Scott out at 2nd.

Obviously we can't hear what's going on on the field, but Theriot's body language looked as though he was calling it. If all he was doing was waving him off then I agree it might be his fault since Patterson couldn't have seen that if he had his eye on the ball.

In any case, it's the infielder's ball until the outfielder calls him off. With what we can possibly know about the play, I'd put it at 95% EPatt's fault, 3% Theriot's, and 2% Edmonds' (it was in CF after all).

AP recap says E-Patt called off Theriot. In any case, why has no one said what needs to be said: I blame Barrett.

i think cedeno has had 9 rbis for at least 6 weeks
damn they made him look bad,but lou had pretty much
used everyone but blanco,personally i would have
let edmonds hit and save the pinch hitter.

if cedeno were to get hurt or traded wh is the backup

also the cubs cant send him down beause they would lose him?

we need to make sure we have another option as of now
when the playoffs happen i will root for him not being
on roster


6ip 7h 2bb 5k 1hr (96 pitches, 3er, loss)

Hindsight is always 20/20, but Edmonds has a career OBP against LHP of .333. I would have liked to have seen him hit for himself instead of Murton, especially given how hot he has been. Then you would have had Murton in the 9th with the bases loaded. In that scenario Murton's skill set really would have helped out. All we needed was contact. Flyout or something, jeez, 3 straight K's...

1. Cedeno pinch-hitting
2. Fukky against a very tough LHP
3. Henry pinch-hitting

Having slept on it --- not a shocking outcome.

Yeah, I would have liked to have had Reed Johnson in any of those situations, especially given his .347 career average with the bases loaded.

I am still pissed about Ronnies AB from last night. The first 3 hitters work their ass off to load the bases and Sherrill is wild. What does Ronnie start doing? Hacking away and swinging at stupid shit.

If you have ever wondered why Cedeno sits on the bench and Ryan Theriot plays that was the AB. Theriot has a clue when he steps into the batters box, Ronnie who the hell knows what he is thinking. He is probably thinking in that situation its Grand Slam time, lets swing from my ass and hope i make contact.

Remember when our roster was full of these type of bums?

Yeah, since Cedeno's 2 for 5 game on May 23rd he is 6 for 37 for a robust .162 average. He has no RBIs and 10 Ks in that time. I always at least feel like guys like Fontenot and Theriot, and even Murton give us solid at-bats.

Here are some initial thoughts on how the NL All-Star Roster might shape out. These are just my ramblings.

8 Starters Elected by Fans
C - Soto (Cubs)
1B - Berkman (Astros)
2B - Utley (Phillies)
3B - Jones (Braves)
SS - Ramirez (Marlins)
OF - Fuudome (Cubs)
OF - Soriano (Cubs)
OF - Griffey (Reds

I assume that Ramirez holds off Tejada and Griffey holds off Braun over the next week. The rest are all but settled.

8 Position Back-Ups Elected by Players and Coaches Ballot
C - Martin (Dodgers)
1B - Pujols (Cardinals)
2B - Uggla (Marlins)
3B - Ramirez (Cubs)
SS - Reyes (Mets)
OF - Holliday (Rockies)
OF - Braun (Brewers)
OF - Lee (Astros)

This is the most difficult to predict. We don't know what the players are thinking right now, who they might just dislike as people, how much they pay attention to stats versus respect based on past performance, etc. McCann could easily end up ahead of Martin. It's possible someone besides Pujols gets in at first, like Gonzalez. If many players don't like Reyes someone like Tejada, or even Rollins could get in at short. Maybe Wright gets picked over Ramirez, but given their years I don't think so. I think Lee has a lot of respect, but it's also entirely possible that Nady, McLouth or someone like that could be selected based on having a great year.

5 Starters and 3 Releivers Elected by Players and Coaches

SP - Lincecum (Giants)
SP - Volquez (Reds)
SP - Webb (Diamondbacks)
SP - Sheets (Brewers)
SP - Santana (Mets)
RP - Lidge (Phillies)
RP - Wood (Cubs)
RP - Wagner (Mets)

This is also difficult to predict. The maintays like Oswalt and Peavy, etc. aren't having great years statistically. Peavy though could still very well go. Althoug the W-L isn't great, I think Santana might get picked due to his dominance of hitters so far and reputation. I also think Wood gets picked here. It is a very down year for closers in the NL and many of those having the best years are relative no names (Rauch, Wilson, Capps, etc.). Wood is going to be at the top in saves, has nasty stuff that hitters hate, has great respect, is a good story, and plays for the best team in the majors.

7 Manager Selections
Based on what I have above, Hurdle first probably picks these three to fulfill his obligation to take a player from each team.

SS - Guzman (Nationals)
1B - Gonzalez (Padres)
OF - McLouth or Nady or Bay (Pirates)

Guzman leads all NL shortstops in average. The only other National even remotely possible is Rauch. Gonzalez has to go here if he doesn't get selected by the players. Capps could go for the Pirates instead, but I would think someone in the Pirates' outfield has to be rewarded for the year they are having.

With only 8 pitchers on the roster so far I think Hurdle uses his other 4, and possible his ballot for the final Fan Voting on pitchers. I think these two are in for sure.

SP - Cook (Rockies)
SP - Dempster (Cubs)

Beyond that I am at a bit of a loss in trying to predict. Fuentes could go, especially given the Rockie connection. Valverde, Lyon, Capps, Rauch, Hoffman, and Cordero are all possibilities given the love for closers in All-Star games. Also, this is probably surprising, but don't be shocked if Taylor Bucholtz is chosen. He has 15 holds, a 1.40 ERA, and a 0.75 WHIP. Marmol is likely here too. His ERA is up to 3.00 now, but he still leads all relievers in Ks. He is 30th in the NL in Ks, tied with Tim Hudson who has 65 more innings pitched.

I should also note that if Soriano were not ready to play, he would likely be replaced by a Pirate's outfielder, in my opinion.

Overall I think this will be an interesting roster. There will be a ton of first time All-Stars and a lot of the big names of the past will not be there.

I kind of wonder where all the Soriano voter love comes from. He's got a superstar contract, but other than that I don't really think of him as the kind of guy who could lead the OFers in All-Star votes.

Anyone else think it might have something to do with starting his career in Japan? Didn't we used to have a commenter here from Japan? I'd love to know how much influence over the voting the Japanese fans have.

I don't think Japan has much to do with it.

He started his career with the Yankees. He played in the post-season a lot. He makes headlines by hitting home runs and stealing bases. He is a recognizeable, flashy player. Also, once he got to the All-Star game he excelled - he is 5 for 14 with 3 home runs and 6 RBI. So he shines in the spotlight and is then more likely to get more votes the next year. Also, playing for the Cubs has boosted his vote totals this season.

I'd guess by Fukudome who could finish 4th at the rate things are going.

The 10-year-old in me shrieks "6 Cubs, neat!"

Submitted by rokfish on Tue, 06/24/2008 - 10:11pm.

if cedeno were to get hurt or traded wh is the backup

also the cubs cant send him down beause they would lose him? we need to make sure we have another option as of now when the playoffs happen i will root for him not being on roster


ROKFISH: Ronny Cedeno is out of minor league options, so he would have to clear Outright Assignment Waivers (which are irrevocable) in order to be sent to the minors. The Cubs would trade Cedeno before they would risk losing him off waivers.

I think it's conceivable that the Cubs will end up including Cedeno in a deadline deal for pitching, or (more likely) he could be part of a deal for a more experienced (and expensive) middle-infielder, like maybe Cristian Guzman (WAS) or David Eckstein (TOR). I think Piniella probably prefers vets on his bench, especially as it gets closer to the MLB stretch drive and post-season.

As for who the Cubs in-house Plan "C" option is at shortstop, that's got to be Iowa SS Andres Blanco (ex-KC Top Ten Prospect, who has devolved into a 4-A guy).

From what I've seen of Blanco, id recomend keeping Ronny. Blanco is prone to boneheaded plays like Ronny. Yet he can't hit as well that Henry F'N Blanco. We might as well DL Ronny and sign Dusty's ole favorite "speed guy" Neifi.

Please, please - anybody but Scrappy McHustlestein for our new SS. Got to be better options for us at that point in the season.

I believe 'Scrappy McHustlestein'(Theriot?) is having a career year. Sure he will fall hard and fast at some point but alot of players play over their heads.

I believe he was refering Eckstein.

Scrappy McHustleStein, I believe, was referring to David Eckstein...

I wonder what would happen if you combined Theriot, Fontenot, and Eckstein into some sort of scrappiness Voltron? Combined, would they outweigh Prince Fielder?

you might get a hitter who can hit 7+ doubles a month and MAYBE a homer, too.

For those of w/ MLB.TV the Brewers/Braves game is on.

"I believe 'Scrappy McHustlestein'(Theriot?)..."

I was indeed referring to Mr. Eckstein.

Rivera plates Cameron on a double after he got on by a throwing error on a bunt attempt. Rivera then scores on a Weeks double.

Kelly Johnson sends Campillo and Blanco home on a double.

Braves score on singles from Gregor Blanco and Kelly Johnson.

'Scrappy McHustlestein' is David Eckstein?

You have to read it out loud like a movie ad-

"David Eckstein is......

Coming July 2 2008

And the obligitory audio bite:

I don't care what you think, I play the game they way its supposed to be played. And if that is not ok with you, TRADE ME!

Quick scenes-

More athletic and talented players laughing at McHustlestein as practices bunting and slapping the ball in batting practice.

Manager yelling at players in clubhouse-
"IF you guys had half the heart this kid has..." played over scenes of running out ground outs to second, diving into walls for balls five rows up the stands, working counts....

All McHustlestein ever wanted to do was play for Notre Dame.

"Why don't you quit McHustlestein! Your a buck fifty nothin son!"

CAUSE I GOT NO WHERE ELSE TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!(in really emotionally dramatic fashion)

I logged on to bitch about Cedeno, and everyone had it covered. Nice job.

You forgot the scene where the manager's bench coach is cast as the villain in the movie, exclaiming that Scrappy's penchant for Hustle plays does nothing but "clog up the bases for our big hitters."

For some reason I see it as a musical.

And I think Chad would agree.



You gotta have GRIT! Grains and grains of GRIT!

And in the end, Scrappy, the team's big slugger and the overweight manager all do a show-stopping tap number.

Can our very own Chad can do the Choreography and make the costumes. This thing might very well have legs!

Too bad Cole Porter is dead.

Chad will certainly be doing something, but the costumes will be coming off Scrappy in that situation.

if it's a show then we must get chris o'donnell to play Eckstein. that guy has scrappy written all over his face.

Recent comments

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  • Sure, no marks and some inconsistencies in the witness's statements. But firing your gun into garage wall immediately after an argument and punching out your car window is still threatening and out of control behavior. There was certainly enough for MLB to think it warranted a 30-game suspension.

    Charlie 30 min 57 sec ago view
  • I'd prefer they be flexible with the closing situation depending on matchups. You're not really adding a lefty reliever if you use him strictly as a closer.

    Charlie 31 min 29 sec ago view
  • Stockpiling young talent isn't only for trading for someone like Chapman though. Even with an elite closer winning the World Series is basically a crap shoot so the key is to get to the playoffs as much as possible and not just mortgage everything on one year. Once you get there an elite bullpen certainly helps but the playoffs can be won by one hitter or starting pitcher getting hot (Murphy, Molina, Baumgardner) and a closer might not be able to stop that.

    johann 55 min 48 sec ago view
  • I'm also not crazy about press convictions. As the police report noted, there were no marks on the lady in question. There's a TMZ link (of course) to her police pictures, as well.

    I think the only way this trade goes real bad is if Cubbery intervenes and Chapman is suddenly bad for some reason.

    Old and Blue 59 min 9 sec ago view
  • I am right there with you closing in on 60.

    I don't care that much about "mortgaging" one player who is not only blocked by two guys, but is not ready to hit the majors for at least a couple years.

    There is no reason why this team, this year, can't have a real shot at something NONE of us have experienced.

    Further, I don't feel that even if they fall short that they have ruined their farm system.

    I have made my opinion clear here, with others, Warren was shit on the Cubs save one spot start.

    The E-Man 2 hours 28 min ago view
  • Trading for Warren, Warren sucking, getting Warren back for Chapman plus 3 prospects, sounds like Revenge of The Yankees on the former Boston executive. Old rivalries never die.

    I pray to the heavens above Chapman doesn't suck for some reason, or he'll be booed out of town faster than a Todd Hundley revival meeting.

    Old and Blue 2 hours 36 min ago view
  • I'm kind of nostalgic for the Schwarber-for-Miller rumors.

    Brick 2 hours 48 min ago view
  • This offseason, after some ridiculous playoff run and Chapman saving every game from here until the end of the postseason striking out 27/9innings, I welcome anyone to quote this thread and call me a dummy: I hate this trade, and my hate is 2 parts Chapman makes this team less likeable and 1 part that's a ridiculous overpay for 30 regular season innings and, at tops, 10 postseason innings. Already hoping they don't extend him.

    Charlie 2 hours 49 min ago view
  • btw...Thanks AZ Phil. I'm really enjoying your take on this trade.

    Cubster 3 hours 12 min ago view
  • I'm a bit disappointed on the Warren experience. Essentially they gave Castro away for crickets (OK, well they signed Zobrist with the Castro salary dump). Otherwise one might look at it as Chapman for Castro and our #1 minors prospect (Torres) + McKinney/Crawford. Seems pricey for a 2 month rental. We will see if this price tag is that steep in a relative way based on the remaining deadline deals for relievers.

    Cubster 3 hours 12 min ago view
  • Yep. One of the great things about this team (in addition to being really good at baseball) was the "likable" factor. Feels a bit different now. Who knows...maybe Chapman will be the king of the dance parties.

    billybucks 3 hours 21 min ago view
  • Here are some possible corresponding minor league moves we might see in the aftermath  of the Chapman trade: 

    SOUTH BEND to MYRTLE BEACH: OF Donnie Dewees and INF Bryant Flete  

    EUGENE to SOUTH BEND: OF Robert Garcia and INF Vimael Machin 

    There is really no reason to replace Billy McKinney at Tennessee because both Chris Coghlan and Jorge Soler are doing their rehab at Tennessee.  

    And there are plenty of pitchers at Iowa. No need to replace Warren at AAA. .  

    Arizona Phil 3 hours 41 min ago view
  • I am 70 years old. The Cubs last played in the World Series in 1945. I was born in 1946. I hate to lose a prospect like Torres, but when the opportunity is there to get that World Series ring, you go for it. This was the idea in stock piling all this young talent. I would like to see Reddick added now and the Cubbies should be done.

    Hagsag 4 hours 12 min ago view
  • I would expect Richard to accept an optional assignment because based on how he's played this season, there is a decent chance that he won't find work elsewhere. Rather stay and potentially get a ring. Same goes for Coghlan since he's struggled mightily this year.

    Edwards should not go down. He's pitched very well and Maddon is very impressed with him. I would expect Grimm to go down for Cahill so he can get back on track (he's pitched better in July, but he's not getting enough appearances).

    chitownmvp01 4 hours 15 min ago view
  • chitownmvp01: Indeed Clayton Richard would seem to be odd man out once Chapman reports, but Richard might accept a minor league assignment if he is promised a return to Chicago on 9/1 when MLB Active List rosters expand (Richard has minor league ioptions left).

    Arizona Phil 4 hours 18 min ago view
  • The only player in the deal that would cause me a second thought is Gleyber Torres.

    McKinney and Crawford are decent prospects but both are redundant/replaceable in the system and Warren was really only a middle-reliever or #6 starter, so to me it's really just Torres for Chapman.

    Arizona Phil 4 hours 39 min ago view