The Player to Be Named Later Might be Named Cash

It was hinted at when the rumors first popped up, but the story from Spencer Fordin at MLB.com confirms that the player to be named later in the Rich Hill deal will be contingent on his performance.

That future return will be tied to how Hill performs as an Oriole, and
in some potential circumstances, it could even be a cash transaction. 

Fangraphs takes a look at the trade as well, although I have issues with the suggestion that Hill should just throw more change-ups and "diversify his repertoire". If it was that simple, he would have already been doing it. Anyone that has followed him knows that his change-up and cutter are very poor offerings that he has trouble controlling and more importantly for the pitcher, believing that he can get it by a hitter.

Tags: 
Cubs Roster Moves
Rich Hill
Submitted by Rob G. on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 12:42pm
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Comments

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 12:55pm

david cash sucks!

har...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 12:56pm

huh?

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 12:57pm

he's a minor league roster fodder kid for baltimore.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 12:57pm

alright, took me a sec, but I assume this was an old Cubs prospect joke

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?p...

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 12:59pm

close, but might as well be...i would have accepted kevin cash for 1/2 credit, too.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 1:34pm

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/orlando-huds...

Dodgers, Nats, Yankees and Mets have talked to his agent...

Submitted by Steve Christmas
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 1:48pm

Norm Cash might still have some power left.

Submitted by Seamhead
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 2:00pm

We've already got Cashner.

Just goes to show that you simply can't have too much Cash.

Submitted by billybucks
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 2:00pm

Johnny Cash could sing the 7th-inning stretch.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 3:08pm

It will be a quartet with Jerry Garcia,Buddy Holly and Falco

Submitted by Mister Whipple
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:42am

Falco FTW. Still laughing.

Submitted by Cubster
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 2:05pm

as "they" say, Cash is King

whoever they is.

Submitted by Wes
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 2:16pm

The most important question -

DOES CASH HIT LEFT HANDED?!?!?!?!?

Submitted by CPH2133
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 2:19pm

Sure does, and has grit and scrap coming out of his ears. Standing an exaggerated 5'11 and being from Greenwich, CT he'll be a perfect fit on this squad.

Submitted by tbone
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 3:06pm

What's considered scrappy in Greenwich, CT? Only having your gardener come once a week?

Submitted by navigator
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 3:20pm

Voting Republican.

Submitted by mastrick
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 3:26pm

We have some guys like Hill in our system too, guys we've gotten from other clubs in trades and guys like Ryan Harvey that have big holes in their swings. Guys that looked like "can't miss" prospects who missed.

My sense is that Hill will perform poorly in spring training - when his performance is bad enough to clear waviers he will be sent down and play a couple more years in minor league ball. I'm surprised that Corey Patterson isn't already on that career path.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 3:33pm

Kpatt is unemployed.

So I'm not sure what career path that means exactly?

Submitted by Seamhead
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 3:45pm

I believe Corey signed a minor league deal with the Nationals.

Submitted by The Joe
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 3:54pm

Just in case they run out of outfielders.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 4:16pm

I missed that.

Good luck to them with that.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 4:38pm

And here I was thinking people were going to take exception to Ryan Harvey being described as "can't miss"...

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 5:59pm

wuh?

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 4:40pm

This guy is on Miecketwicz's top 10 comps at BR:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/fondyde01.shtml

Dee Fondy - and he came up as a Cub. He once hit more triples than had stolen bases, and his middle name was Virgil, so his parents really had it out for him.

Submitted by Cubster
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 4:44pm

from Rotoworld:

"We haven't set a deadline yet," GM Ned Colletti said "These situations can change in an instant." Meanwhile, we imagine that Manny is wondering why a GM that gave Jason Schmidt and his damaged shoulder a three-year deal and Juan Pierre a five-year contract is being so strict about going short-term with him.

Colletti reportedly spent months in the burn unit at Cedar Sinai after each of those deals. In fact there are plaques over several of the beds: 3/44, 5/50.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 4:52pm

Begins Feb. 20th

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/press_releases/pr...

Submitted by allinginge
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 2:20am

I am flying in for a weekend visit and need tix for the Dodgers saturday game. is the best bet just sitting in the virtual waiting room and hoping? and can i just print off the receipt rather than them sending me physical tickets to London??

Submitted by WISCGRAD
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 7:14am

I was there at the very beginning last year waiting in the virtual waiting room and was there for a couple of hours. At that point a lot of weekend games were sold out. I wasn't picky last year so it didn't matter for me, but if you need a particular game you might be chancing it. If you do get them online though, yes, you can just print the tickets out right on your computer at home.

I know last year many reported on here that they got tired of waiting online and called instead and got right through, so that might be an option.

Submitted by CPH2133
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 11:55am

"I know last year many reported on here that they got tired of waiting online and called instead and got right through, so that might be an option."

Yea, I waited online for about 3 hours and decided to call while waiting. Picked up after about 5 minutes on hold and bought some tickets (then again it was for an early April game) but still was able to speak with the representative no problem. That'd be the best best I'd figure.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 4:54pm

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=2...

piece on the kids from South Korea

Submitted by WISCGRAD
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 5:47pm

Muskat proves useful and in other news Hell freezes over.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 5:09pm

http://cubtown.baseballtoaster.com/

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 5:17pm

That's a pity. I always really liked the clean layout of that site.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 5:28pm

http://fairpole.baseballtoaster.com/archives/12042...

appears the whole thing is blowing up, at least Weisman got a job at the LA Times...

Submitted by John Beasley
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 6:10pm

You gotta think Smart is a first-ballot TCR Hall of Famer five years from today.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 6:13pm

ha, but how long will it take John Hill to get in?

I'm going for 3000 posts, I think it's my only shot....my peak period was kind of light.

Submitted by CPH2133
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 6:17pm

That's what she said...

Submitted by Wes
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 6:22pm

Think John Hill is going to have to wait on the veterans committee.

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 6:34pm

if "thanks" were dollars AZPhil would be a millionaire.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 6:41pm

AZ Phil will join Ruz as the only 2 to have the 5-yr waiting period waived.....

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 6:45pm

Silent towel is being grossly overlooked

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 6:49pm

in the TCR Commentors wing of the hall, there's already an exhibit for him and "Mike" (not Mike C.) and "The Hawk" and the 1908andcounting/ACB crew, but I don't think they'll get elected in...

 

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 6:57pm

The question is.....

Does the exhibit pay any sort of homage to simoniz or infield rakes?

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 6:59pm

well of course, along with a picture of the low-rider that Carlos drives...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 7:00pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/p...

never a Phish fan, but I assume some of you are

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 7:33pm

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/feb/03...

looks like Alderson might be out..

not sure what this will do to their payroll and Peavy...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 8:02pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3881897

Submitted by Old and Blue
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 8:45pm

Kinda bums me out, although it doesn't surprise me. I watched Bonds quite a bit while I lived in SF. I don't want to dredge up the argument about how bat speed and the ability to take a pitch can't be affected by steroids. Everyone has made up their minds about that argument. Plus, everybody hates Bonds.

I don't. I enjoyed the fuck out of watching him build PacBell Park (now called Some Telecommunications Firm Park). I've never seen a player be able to sit back on a pitch as long as he did and then just bury it when he decided he liked it.

What pisses me off is that he didn't need to do this. He might not have broken the HR record without steroids, but he would have made the Hall of Fame. Now, there's a good chance he won't.

What an oaf.

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 8:51pm

drugs or not...the chance of us seeing a hitter like bonds 01-04 is pretty damn near impossible.

in 04 he had a ob% of .609 (.362 avg)...over 1/3 of his hits were homers and over 1/2 were extra base hits. 232 walks.

what are the chances of seeing that kind of hitter again? damn...

Submitted by Old and Blue
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 8:57pm

Exactly. I moved to the Bay Area about 13 years ago and I discovered one thing. If Barry Bonds can't rid me of being a Cubs fan, nobody can. But I enjoyed watching that dude hit. It was unbelievable. Okay, maybe it's alright to dredge up the steroids debate. Cuz they'll never be another hitter like that, I don't think, and steroids didn't do it. That's why I just don't get why he did it. I guess it was just to help him deal with ... something. Really, I have no idea. When he was a skinny bastard playing for Pittsburgh he was pretty damn good, and I've lifted enough weights (weighed 135 in college and went to 190 without even protein drinks) that I know you don't HAVE to do steroids to put on bulk. Very odd to me.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:20pm

There's a correlation between bat speed and strength... This is why you don't see 6'4 180 lb guys hitting 50 HR's a year in the majors. Also HGH is supposed to improve eyesight.

There was a pretty convincing article a couple years ago about how his arm brace also attributed to him putting up those great numbers. He and Biggio had those ridiculous things grandfathered in, and the game is better now that they're gone.

I never saw Ted Williams play, and I guess for him and Ruth they played by similiar rules to Bonds, but for about 6 years, you would never see anything but a fastball called for a strike against Bonds and his strikezone was about the size of a dinner plate. It was always the damndest thing to me, because public opinion would imply that Bonds (sort of like Bradley) wasn't well likes, and you would imagine that the umpires would pick up on that, instead they made a new set of the Jordan Rules for him.

Submitted by dB
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:21am

Bonds wasn't going to break the HR record without the PEDs, his wheels were failing him even by 2002. However, he could have gone down as perhaps the second greatest all around player to Mays.

Submitted by billybucks
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:00am

"He MIGHT not have broken the HR record without steroids"?

Gosh, ya think?

Over 40% of his career HR came after his 35th birthday, and that's with nobody pitching to him.

Anyone over 35 think that's natural?

However, I don't understand the villificiation of Bonds over McGuire, Giambi, etc.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 9:37am

Giambi and McGuire for the most part 'came clean'. Bonds, like Rose tried to play innocent.

Submitted by Andrew
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:06am

Giambi came clean. McGwire did not, unless you mean offering lame attempts to take the higher road before Congress and, by doing so, confirming his own guilt. At least Bonds admitted he took the cream and the clear.

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:55am

When did McGwire come clean?

Submitted by The Joe
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:16pm

By clean, he means white.

Ok, not really. Actually, he was already hated and widely believed to be an asshole. Steroids just gave a focal point to that hatred.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 2:44pm

"I'm an not here to talk about the past" = the smart way to say 'Yes, I used PED's' without winding up like Clemens.

Submitted by Tito
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 3:58pm

The "smart" way made him a laughingstock. If he'd admitted steroid use, he wouldn't have wound up like Clemens.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 9:16pm

Steroids were a banned substance in MLB when he was playing, and illegal to use without a doctor's prescription in the good ol' US of A.

Why would anyone go on national television, in front of Congress and

A. Confess a crime
or
B. Perjur himself

When he had no reason to?

I hope you two aren't lawyers.

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Thu, 02/05/2009 - 7:11am

You are talking about two different things.

He plead the fifth, essentially, which is fine if that is the decision that he wanted to make. I find it to be foolish, but whatever.

But regardless... that is NOT coming clean. At all.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Thu, 02/05/2009 - 7:22am

Well the fact that you find it foolish, and no one is hounding him (besides his whack-job brother I guess), probably should tell you something.

It was a defacto admission, without opening himself to legal action or intense public scrutiny.

It was the smart thing to do. If he "came clean" in your sense MLB could, in theory, erase his records, as well as exposing himself to have various DA's around the country prosecute him, sort of like Michael Phelps is experiencing now.

Submitted by big_lowitzki
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 5:06pm

Smart? Interesting...

You sure have strange definitions of "come clean" and "smart."

Submitted by jacos
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 8:57pm

Yankees had most wins 2001-2007 who was second?

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:09pm

red sox.

Submitted by jacos
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:09pm

Oakland A's

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:12pm

damn, off by 4 wins...

forgot how good they were in 2001 and 2002....

Submitted by jacos
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:20pm

I forgot too, that's why I posted.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 8:58pm

It will be interesting to see what happens to roger Clemens.

To me, the evidence against Roger is every bit as strong. So if Roger escapes prosecution, you really have to question some governmental motives.

Ultimately this reeks of a witch-hunt, dog and pony show. Marion Jones had to pay her debt. Raffy Palmiero didn't have to pay. As much as I hate the race card. You can't really even debate with someone who pulls it on this whole steroids/balco mess.

Submitted by Old and Blue
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:06pm

I guess everyone has their own opinion, but, again, with Clemens, I just think the dude was killer. I guess they (Bonds and Clemens) thought they couldn't excel into "old age" if they didn't do steroids. That part is possible, and it's a fair argument their detractors will use.

I'm old enough that I guess I think if some idiot is willing to sacrifice his body and drop a few drops of steroids to make his body last a bit longer as an athlete, and I get to enjoy the beauty of the results, I'm okay with it. They'll end up with cancer or something, and that's a big price to pay. Their decision. We fans crave amazing excellence, and are really as culpable as the players in perpetuating this thing.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:37pm

absolutely both guys were killer. I'm more talking about the double standard (apparently) of the prosecution of them.

Personally I don't think steriods are the big deal the media/baseball writers make it out to be. Modern technology will push the limit right to the edge of legality. It just isn't the cut and dry issue that people make it out to be. It's more a case of who has access to the better chemists.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:42pm

isn't clemens being prosecuted for perjury too?

now whether they get a conviction might be another story as that depends on the judge, quality of lawyers and evidence....

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:44pm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/mich...

 ah yes, he is and the evidence is sketchier....

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 9:40am

I know it was been mentioned as a possibility. But I have yet to see an actual indictment against Clemens.

And FWIW, I'm not sure what this new "evidence really changes anything in the Bonds case?

He said that he took the "cream and the clear" but that he didn't know it was Steroids. He took a random/annonymous screening given to him by MLB. He passed it at the time.

Now 6 years later its tested and he failed? What exactly does that prove? He said he took steroids "unknowingly". If they told him he passed in 2003. Then as far as proof goes, he has no burden on him.

The whole thing reeks of Dog and Pony show. Especially with the way the Govenment went after Marion Jones and Bonds. Yet have not done anything with Palmeiro or Clemens up to this point.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 9:52am

When did Clemens and Palmeiro commit purgery? If you remember, Palmeiro's excuse got a little more credibility in the light of the Mitchell report. Still stupid, and he still violated the rules, but he at least has a shadow of a doubt regarding intent.

Bonds has got some guy he's paying money to go to jail for him.

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:01am

When you give false testimony to congress, it’s perjury. Bonds testified that if he took steroids. He did so unknowingly.

Not that I believe him. But it seems like someone has a real agenda when it comes to Bonds.

Submitted by WISCGRAD
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:17am

Well, I think the government feels that they have enough evidence - physical and testimony - to demonstrate that he did "know" what he was doing. It will be up to a jury to decide whether that evidence proves that point in which case he will be ruled to have perjured himself.

It's also hard to say that they are out for Bonds when they have already indicted and convicted female cyclist Tammy Thames for the same thing. She is surely not a name anyone cares about.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:18am

My mistake, I had actually forgotten that Clemens appreared before Congress.

There's no evidence against Palmeiro, and McGuire never said he didn't use PED's.

I guess the moral of the story is there's a reason we have the Fifth amendment, and if you're too stupid to use it, then reap what you've sown.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:20am

Al McGuire never said he didn't use PED's?

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:23am

He died before Viagra

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:22am

Good point about pleading the fizzifth,

It just seemes really odd that Bonds and Jones were singled out. What ever happend to Gary Sheffield in this whole mess. I believe that he said the same thing as Bonds did to the grand Jury (Not knowing Cream and Clear were roids). Here is the list of People caught up in Balco. Yet the govt only went after the 2 highest profile people. I guess I just kinda question why?

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/04/26/Sports/Report__B...

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:27am

it just matters what they said to the grand jury which is supposed to be sealed testimony...I know a lot of it got leaked. Jason Giambi I know fessed up during that testimony.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:00am

why bother reading links when you can just argue....there are perjury charges up against Clemens. At this point it's up to the grand jury to decide whether there's enough evidence to indict him...

How is that playing favorites?

Submitted by Dr. aaron b
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:04am

The link says that he MIGHT be indicted for perjury.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:11am


The
main responsibility of the Grand Jury is to review the evidence
provided by the prosecution and to determine whether there is enough
probability to move forward with an indictment. An indictment is a
formal accusation of a felony that is delivered by the grand jury after
carefully considering the evidence that is presented by the prosecutor.
Primarily, an indictment is in regards to a felony crime.

they're trying to prosecute him, it's just a matter if they have evidence. How is that favoritism?

Submitted by WISCGRAD
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:10am

There isn't a double standard going on here. Jones and Bones were both part of the BALCO investigation and testified before the grand jury. You can't lie to a grand jury in a major federal investigation and not be expected to be indicted on perjury charges. Jones in fact pled guilty to doing so.

Clemens was never a part of a federal investigation at all. Ironically, the only reason he is even being pursued now is because he requested to speak before Congress and then lied to them - which is stupid to do. If they determine he lied to Congress he will also be indicted on similar charges. Were just not there yet.

Palmeiro testified in March 2005, long before his positive test in August. Congress began an investigation into similar perjury charges, but could find no evidence of steroid use BEFORE his testimony before Congress - or he'd be in the same boat.

Submitted by jacos
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:10pm

Noticed on Caribbean World Series the Mexican team has alot of guys named Corona.

Submitted by Charlie
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:19pm

New sponsorship deal.

In other news, the Cubs will have Carlos Budweiser start on Opening Day.

Submitted by Old and Blue
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:24pm

You mean, Carlos Belgium?

Submitted by Old and Blue
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:25pm

Name them.

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:28pm

it's Feb. 3rd and i'm watching professional-quality wooden bat baseball on TV.

awesome.

awesome.

Submitted by Wes
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 9:54pm

Just saw on the bottom line on ESPNEWS that A-Ram told the Dominican he didn't want to play in the WBC since A-Rod joined the team.

Guess it makes sense - not really anywhere else for Rammy to play with Pujols, Hanley, and Reyes also in that infield. Not like they're going to move A-Rod to short with those two on the roster.

EDIT: Pretty nasty pitching staff for that group. Can start Edinson Volquez, Ubaldo, Cueto, and Ervin Santana. You can follow them with some order of Coco Cordero, Valverde, Marmol, and K-Rod. Yikes.

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 10:38pm

since that's the case he might as well spend spring with his teammates in ST than riding pine. he wants to start evidently.

don't blame him...and yeah, the dominican team is going to be crazy good.

Submitted by Cubster
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 10:24pm

A-Ram told the Dominican he didn't want to play in the WBC
---
That's a good thing, ARam can tend to his roosters a bit longer.

Submitted by Old and Blue
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 10:50pm

You know, I'm an old shit, and I normally am cool with what I consider racist comments. Please tell me I'm full of shit. Jesus Fucking Christopher.

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 11:05pm

he was/is tied to organized cockfighting (which is legal where he does it).

it's not even grey area. he just doesn't discuss it.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 11:17pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/sports/otherspor...

Chicago Cubs
third baseman Aramis Ramírez is prominently featured in a recent issue
of a Dominican cockfighting magazine, En La Traba, in which he is
pictured with several roosters that he raises for fighting. Of
roosters, he said in the magazine, “When I’m in the Dominican Republic,
I’m dedicated entirely to them.”

Submitted by Cubster
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 11:19pm

that was written about in Feb 08

http://tinyurl.com/baca2n

http://tinyurl.com/av73gy

It's part of the culture. When I was in Equador the open markets had all kinds of live chickens and roosters for sale. Of course it's mostly to make chicken soup.

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 11:26pm

some of you are missing a really kickass game...

the past 2 innings of mex/ven...wow.

Submitted by Wes
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 11:42pm

A lot of us... are missing a really kickass game. I want this fucking channel so badly. I get the piece of shit NFL network... and I can watch Iowa @ Michigan men's gymnastics on Big Ten Network right now, but no, not MLB Network. I'm bitter.

The good news is, "Coed Confidential 2 Sophomores 11: The Bachelor Party" is on Cinemax in half an hour.

Submitted by crunch
on Tue, 02/03/2009 - 11:52pm

yow, that sucks.

game just ended with a 2 out bases-empty solo shot to RF in the bottom 11th. VEN wins.

Submitted by Old and Blue
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:19am

I love your posts generally, crunch, but you gotta let it go. And if you ask me what you should let go, I will just give you a glazed look.

Submitted by Old and Blue
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:07am

You just need to get your ass here more often cuz I am too old to figure out stuff, and I need you and AZ Phil to deal with next year, which I DREAD. Cuz last year's team was overrated. And this year? Well...

Submitted by George Altman
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:13pm

Wes, I knew we had some sort of connection all this time. Is that Karen hot or what?

Submitted by Wes
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:48pm

Yes she is, but I motion that all the girls on those cheesy Cinemax pornosoaps are hot.

Submitted by Rich
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:09am

I'm not sure I'd call the Mays the best all around player though. He was awesome, no doubt about it. We talk about this at work all the time, who are your top 5 players of all time? I think my top five would probably be #1 Ruth
#2 Williams
#3 Mantle
#4 Cobb
#5 Mays

Submitted by Old and Blue
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:17am

You saw Ruth play? Dude, you're like into vampires, too, I bet.

Submitted by OakLawnGuy
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 7:47am

For the sum total of the 5 tools, Mays probably has it over Williams, Mantle (only perhaps because of the way his injuries sapped his ability), Cobb and Ruth. The Babe had that 6th tool, though: pitching. He threw during the pitcher's era, I admit, but still I believe he was considered the best young lefty in the majors.

Submitted by billybucks
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:05am

Ruth was in another world when compared to his peers -- when he retired with 714 HR, I think the runner up had less than 400. Of course, Yankee Stadium's short RF "porch" helped.

Submitted by WISCGRAD
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:18am

Mays: .302/.384/.557, 2062 R, 1903 RBI, 3283 H, 523 2B, 140 3B, 660 HR, 338 SB, .981 FP, 2.73 RF

Aaron: .305/.374/.555, 2174 R, 2297 RBI, 3771 H, 624 2B, 98 3B, 755 HR, 240 SB, .982 FP, 2.60 RF

If Mays makes the list I think Aaron has to as well. Mays had a bit more speed, Aaron a bit more power, otherwise they were very similar players.

Submitted by billybucks
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:04am

It is remarkable how infrequently Bad Henry gets mentioned in the "greatest" conversations. If we think the ESPN East Coast media bias is bad now.....

Ruth, Mays, Mantle played in NY and Williams played in Boston. Hank Aaron and Stan Musial are largely ignored.

Submitted by OakLawnGuy
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:16am

The Hammer was steadily great and that may be involved in the image as well. Mays at his peak was probably better than Aaron, but I think Aaron's consistent excellence seemed to fly under the radar. His career viewed in an arc is one of the three or four greatest in the game (I'm thinking of Cobb's and Williams' as well), if not the best.

Musial could be the single most unrecognized superstar in MLB history. Certainly in the top 5.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:20am

Hornsby.

Submitted by OakLawnGuy
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:39pm

Best right handed hitter of all time. Even during the lively ball years....... .424 is inhuman in any era. Anecdotal evidence says he couldn't play 2B much and wasn't that interested in doing so.

And of course he pushed the promotion of Billy Williams and Ron Santo back around '59. For that alone I'm grateful.

Submitted by The Real Neal
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 9:18pm

That may be true about him not being a terribly good 2nd basemen, but neither would have Mays, Mantle, Ruth, Williams etc.

Submitted by Dusty Baylor
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:17am

Playing devil's advocate, the 1920's-1930s were an offensive boom era. Before the new baseballs introduced then, the leader had barely over 100 HR's I believe 103...Gavvy Cravath? (it was 119)

Ruth was amazing, period. Mays had more speed, and heck...he lost 2 seasons to being in the Army.
They were both great players.

Submitted by OakLawnGuy
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:31am

No question the Babe was helped by certain conditions related to that fence and the baseball. As was Gehrig - but those guys hit loads of doubles and walked plenty, indicative of their hitting prowess. But like you say, what an amazing player. When the argument of era vs. era comes up, I always figure the best players would still be the best players, whether you project them 60 years ahead or 60 years back.

Do splits stats exist for players that far back? I don't know of any on the more traditional baseball sites.

Submitted by crunch
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 5:25pm

when it comes to ruth you can apply any handicap or bonus you want...as long as you come back to the 1200 innings of 2.30era ball he threw.

dizamn.

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:28am

Babe Ruth was the greatest all-around player...

I'd go Willie Mays for all-around offense and defense....

Submitted by George Altman
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 8:15pm

I agree on both counts 100%

Submitted by artskoe
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:32am

How many topics can we cover in 105 posts? Isn't there a rule covering that? Need another shot of expresso...I'm Daffy, Dizzy, Dean.

SO if Rich Hill becomes a world beater, do we get Brian Roberts as PTBNL?

I LOVE this game!

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:33am

http://www.thecubsbrickyard.com/2009/02/04/casual-...

Submitted by JD
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 10:35am

That was pretty funny.

It was supposed to be, right?

Submitted by John Beasley
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:05pm

Wow, New York just traded Wright to Milwaukee.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3884011

Submitted by Rob G.
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:20pm

well-played....

Submitted by Cubster
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 12:58pm

Orange Guy just traded again, to the Rockies for some guy named Corey Wimpy (or something like that)

Submitted by The Joe
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:00pm

Good for the Orange. Nice place for him to play.

Submitted by JD
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:01pm

He's still not good.

Submitted by The Joe
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:09pm

He shall be the next Matt Holliday.

Submitted by Cubster
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:03pm

Nice place for him to play.
---
Colorado Springs?

Submitted by John Beasley
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:05pm

So much for being a perfect AL player. And good luck with him defending THAT outfield.

Submitted by Wes
on Wed, 02/04/2009 - 1:11pm

May be a place for him, too, if Seth Smith falls on his face.

They sure don't have a lot of depth on the corners, unless Clint Hurdle can look at me with a straight face and say that Clint Barmes is REALLY a better choice than Jeff Baker at 2B.

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